Petition to give 25% of the tags to max point holders in Nevada

[mountainhawks]

Thanks CMA, the meeting was definitely postponed but this just gives us more time to get the word out. A lot of people I know weren't aware of this petition.

I'm curious, jm1607:

I honestly don't care if this goes through or not..

Nevada is going to suck until they cut down your choices to 2-3 instead of 5..

Why does the 5 choice option suck?

 

[cmahoney]

Bump


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[Marble]

Why wouldn't the draw be like say 80 % to point holders, awarded from most to least, then the rest by random draw?

I'm not trying to provoke or cause an issue, I'm just trying to understand what the problem is.

 

[realunlucky]

Thanks CMA, the meeting was definitely postponed but this just gives us more time to get the word out. A lot of people I know weren't aware of this petition.

I'm curious, jm1607:



Why does the 5 choice option suck?

Well everyone shoots for the Moon with thier first two choices, hopes to draw a solid unit with choice three and four and for the 5th choice a unit with decent draw odds.
If you went to 3 choices and applied the same draw strategy odds. 50% of applicants would have to choose between choices 1&2 and 3&4. Would a 50% decrease in applicants be significant?

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[realunlucky]

Why wouldn't the draw be like say 80 % to point holders, awarded from most to least, then the rest by random draw?

I'm not trying to provoke or cause an issue, I'm just trying to understand what the problem is.

Point holders are ready rewarded with squared points. Odds already heavily favor the highest point holders how do you recruit and retain the lower levels of point holders? At this point some people will drop out because of old age before they draw because there are not enough tags to defeat point creep.


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[cmahoney]

Why wouldn't the draw be like say 80 % to point holders, awarded from most to least, then the rest by random draw?

I'm not trying to provoke or cause an issue, I'm just trying to understand what the problem is.

The draw is tough enough as it is but everyone has a chance because it’s random. The more points you have the more chances you get so max point holders already have quite an advantage. For example, a max point holder has 648 more chances to draw a tag then I do with my 9 points.


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[dirtytough]

5 points squared is 25 names in the hat. 10 points is 100 names. 20 is 400 names.

If I apply twice as long as someone else I have 4 times more names in the hat then they do. That seems like plenty of advantage to the points. No need for preference points.

I will say I’m not sure that changing from 5 to 3 choices actually changes the odds of drawing a tag. It changes the odds of drawing a particular tag but not any tag.

 

[realunlucky]

I will say I’m not sure that changing from 5 to 3 choices actually changes the odds of drawing a tag. It changes the odds of drawing a particular tag but not any tag.

Guess it depends on the tag and how many applicants felt it was desirable. It would help split the demand in the mid tier units for sure.
Limiting number of choices should make people choose tag quality with a great unit or tag quantity with a better chance of drawing a tag, right now everyone can choose to apply for both.

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[dirtytough]

Guess it depends on the tag and how many applicants felt it was desirable. It would help split the demand in the mid tier units for sure.
Limiting number of choices should make people choose tag quality with a great unit or tag quantity with a better chance of drawing a tag, right now everyone can choose to apply for both.

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I actually feel 3 is still too many. With 3 I can still pick top tier, mid tier, and bottom tier. Give everyone 1 choice. Let them decide what hunt they want the most and apply for it. Some guys will choose to apply for easy draws and some will swing for the fence.

 

[Marble]

Dang that all seems unneccesarily complicated. I live in CA and it seems pretty simple. People with the highest points, 1 point per year, get drawn first. Then the second highest and so on until 90% of tags are drawn. Then they all go in the same pool and a random draw pulls the last 10%. So people who have put in the longest have the best chance and, there is always a chance anyone can get drawn.

Seems pretty fair. With most tags you can predict the time it will take to get it, unless you get the random draw. You can also look at the draw stats and know how many max point applicants applied.

I beleive I am within 2 to 3 years of a really good elk tag within an hour and half of my home for a great mountain Roosevelt bull.

 

[cmahoney]

Dang that all seems unneccesarily complicated. I live in CA and it seems pretty simple. People with the highest points, 1 point per year, get drawn first. Then the second highest and so on until 90% of tags are drawn. Then they all go in the same pool and a random draw pulls the last 10%. So people who have put in the longest have the best chance and, there is always a chance anyone can get drawn.

Seems pretty fair. With most tags you can predict the time it will take to get it, unless you get the random draw. You can also look at the draw stats and know how many max point applicants applied.

I beleive I am within 2 to 3 years of a really good elk tag within an hour and half of my home for a great mountain Roosevelt bull.

You wouldn’t think it was fair if you were 25 years old, someone that age will never catch up.


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[Zbot]

Just keep it like it is...the system isn’t broken.

 

[Wolf13]

You wouldn’t think it was fair if you were 25 years old, someone that age will never catch up.


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As someone in CA who is 31, this is dead on. I will always be at the random drawing, and I view the application fees as a true donation to CDFW. It's even more difficult to get my friends interested who have never hunted before as they all start asking what their chances are. They are coming in 18 years late, and there were people applying for points at age 11 or 12 as their parents put them in. Heck my family hunted and didn't even realize they screwed up until 6 years in. At that point it was/is too late. The CA system is very broken, though I wouldn't be surprised if it is intentional design to keep new people out at this point. State seems to do all they can to curb hunting/shooting.

 

[Marble]

It doesnt seem broken to me in CA. I can look at the draw odds, max point applicants and those drawn, then have some predictability as to when I'll get my tag.

A lot of the maxpoint applicants are getting close to running out on some hunts at least the ones I am interested in. It then shifts down to the next point tier.

It's like standing in any other line. And there is always a chance to get drawn in the random.

 

[Marble]

You wouldn’t think it was fair if you were 25 years old, someone that age will never catch up.


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I see it as totally fair. First in line gets first choice.

I started at 25 or so when CA started, because of my own mistakes I missed a year on elk, never missed on antelope and can predict I will draw my preferred deer tag every 3 to 4 years. Prior to this system, using a total random draw, I hadn't gotten my deer zone I wanted for 13 or 14 years.

The nevada system seems odd but I dont really pay attention to it because I dont hunt there.

Prior to going all computerized in CA, the guys were getting drawn "randomly". I was complaining about never getting my tag of choice and a couple guys said they had gotten theirs several times. Come to find out they were slipping cash in the envelope for their tags. They seemed surprised I didnt know you could do that.

 

[Marble]

This discussion reminds me a little bit about having the rotation or seniority sign up at work. The new guys always want rotation, until they have enough time on to get good shifts and days off. Then all the sudden they change their minds.

 

[realunlucky]

This discussion reminds me a little bit about having the rotation or seniority sign up at work. The new guys always want rotation, until they have enough time on to get good shifts and days off. Then all the sudden they change their minds.

This is about Nevada a system you don't appear to understand at all.
First it's the old guys that want to make a change to the system so it benefits them even more. Points are already squared which heavily favors those with the most points.
Second your experience is with a tag that takes 4 years to get to the top. The topic here is about tags you could wait your entire life and never get to the top points simply because demand will always out pace the opportunity.


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[cmahoney]

This discussion reminds me a little bit about having the rotation or seniority sign up at work. The new guys always want rotation, until they have enough time on to get good shifts and days off. Then all the sudden they change their minds.

The problem is you have hunts in the preference point system that will never get through the max point holders like X5B. If you missed the start of the point system you basically have no chance. I grew up in CA and am familiar with the system. I prefer the chance I have here in NV much better than the CA system. The NV system gives everyone a random chance, while still allowing for people with more points to have a better chance.


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[canyonhunter47]

I’m never going to apply to states like Nevada with all this point squaring non-sense. If the old guys have been waiting decades it’s because they bet on glory tags despite knowing the odds.

Now that they’re getting old and that bet didn’t pan out that’s their fault and they shouldn’t make the rest of us pay by re-jiggering up the system to be even more in their favor.

 

[cmahoney]

I’m never going to apply to states like Nevada with all this point squaring non-sense. If the old guys have been waiting decades it’s because they bet on glory tags despite knowing the odds.

Now that they’re getting old and that bet didn’t pan out that’s their fault and they shouldn’t make the rest of us pay by re-jiggering up the system to be even more in their favor.

Exactly, if they have been applying for “good “ elk tags for the last 27 years they would have been drawn.


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