Please Help Bring a LR rifle guy back to speed

[Broz]

Please Help Bring a LR rifle guy back up to speed

Hey friends, looking for some help. As some of you may know, I am an avid long range rifle guy. What you may not know is I use to bow hunt every year. So yesterday, I dug out my old bow. Its been 13 yrs since I took a great white tail buck at 18 feet. I have two MT. elk tags this year, and might give the old bow a try again for one. My bow is a BowTech Patriot set at 58 lbs but will go to 70. I shot it yesterday and I shot well at 20 and 30 yards. I am 57 yrs old but can still pull it back smoothly and hold it as long as needed. I shoot carbon arrows with 100gr 1 1/16" solid Montec's. Total arrow weight is 385 gr. If I remember correctly it shot about 275 fps. But I should recheck this, just going off memory.

Now here is where I would like some help from the guys that take elk with a bow. I always used a single pin sight (no slider) and never shot past 30 yards. I feel the need to upgrade my sight. Thinking MT. Black Gold sliding sight? What you say? I like only one pin because that's what I am use to. But would I be better off with 3 or 5 pins and no slide? Being a LR rifle guy I totally understand dialing for the shot if that's the way to go. But don't plan on going outside my effective range. (to be determined)

Misc questions on my mind. I am all about clean kills. I wont take a poke and hope. But is 58 lbs ok for elk? I am comfortable there but could set it up if need be.

Advice from those walking the walk would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Jeff

 

[realunlucky]

Single pin set for your trick pin and a slider for when you have time to range and adjust sounds prefect for you. I love black gold but use a three pin because I'm use to a multiple pin sights

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[theleo91386]

I'm going to guess you meant a total arrow weight of 385 grains and not 285 grains. You're setup will work just fine within your comfort range, and for sliders MT Black Gold or HHA sights are hard to beat.

 

[Broz]

I'm going to guess you meant a total arrow weight of 385 grains and not 285 grains. You're setup will work just fine within your comfort range, and for sliders MT Black Gold or HHA sights are hard to beat.

Yes Sir, Typ-O and I corrected it. Thank you.

I will look into HHA not familiar with them. With good shot angle and good placement, do you feel 50 yards on an elk with this set up has a good percentage for a clean kill on elk? Like I said, I wont poke and hope but was stacking arrows yesterday at 20 and 30. So with good sights, proven drops and no wind I am thinking as long as I can hold good accuracy I may try this is need be. But again, "To Be determined"

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Broz]

Single pin set for your trick pin and a slider for when you have time to range and adjust sounds prefect for you. I love black gold but use a three pin because I'm use to a multiple pin sights

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I am considering a 3 pin too. Not looking for a record shot, just want all I can get within effective range.

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Jon Boy]

Good to hear your getting back into the archery game Broz! Coming from your back ground I think a single pin slider would work just fine for you. Having said that I prefer multiple pins for times things are happening fast. A lot of guys are running single pin sliders sighted for 30 and know there hold over/hold unders for 20 and 40 and then dialing for anything past 40.

 

[dotman]

58lbs is just fine, I like my arrows to be over 400 but you are close. I've never used a single pin or slider so can't help there as I've used a 5 pin sight for years and am used to it.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Jeff,

I'm running a MBG 5 pin slider and really like it. Personally I would rather have a 3-5 pin sight over a single. It's a lot like moa vs mils though. You gotta use whatever you're most comfortable with.

Good luck man!

 

[gelton]

Nice to see Broz...for all the help you gave me on the .300 WinMag + Berger Hybrids I wish I could return the favor I would recommend a 3 pin slider...I have a 5 pin and sight picture gets a little muddied. My dad is getting setup for archery and I had him pickup a 3 pin slider.

 

[theleo91386]

Yes Sir, Typ-O and I corrected it. Thank you.

I will look into HHA not familiar with them. With good shot angle and good placement, do you feel 50 yards on an elk with this set up has a good percentage for a clean kill on elk? Like I said, I wont poke and hope but was stacking arrows yesterday at 20 and 30. So with good sights, proven drops and no wind I am thinking as long as I can hold good accuracy I may try this is need be. But again, "To Be determined"

Thanks
Jeff

In the perfect situation you could probably stretch it that far, but don't forget, your not shooting a rifle. An elk WILL hear your bow being fired before the arrow get's to it. If an elk has an idea your there and is alert when you shoot at 50 yards it has a half a second to move before the arrow gets there. You sound like you've killed your share of elk, so you know a half of a second is plenty of time for them to turn a good shot into a terrible one. A calm animal with it's head down grazing you'd probably get away with it. Animal with it's head up and radar on, you're asking for something to go wrong.

 

[Broz]

Great advice from everyone. Thank you.
I understand "jumping the string" those darn WT deer I archery hunted were great at that. I never took a shot on an alert animal and my success rate was 100%. I would sure hope to keep that going. I fully know the responsibility with both archery and long range rifles. From a guy that has done both, the similarities are very close.

I am in no way giving up long range rifle. I just have two elk tags and so does my wife. So I figure I may set on this wallow I know of and see what might come in. The regular rifle elk season here is total chaos, so some quiet time would be a nice break before the storm.

Never took an elk with a bow, but yes we take many each year with a rifle. I was there for the taking of 70 some last year. That might explain why I would like to hunt before in a little more relaxed environment.

I appreciate the help. Its nice to see that hunters from all methods of take will help each other. I truly believe we need this if we all, as hunters, are going to survive. I will keep listening, and will report what I do in this thread. Again, Thank you all.

 

[theleo91386]

The only problem with the multi pin slider is when you forget to return it to its home setting. I went to the local archery range last night and as I walked up a guy was coming up out of the brush behind firing line for the 60 yard target. He had a MTBG 5 pin slider and was shooting 100 yards. I offered to step back and we both could practice that far but he declined, no biggy. He grabs his arrows and steps up to shoot at 60. I here him shoot the first arrow as I was putting my hip quiver on but didn't hear the impact. He didn't return the sight to home and sent it clean over the target. He's not the first guy I've seen do it, and he won't be the last either. I know a number of guys that have done the exact same thing on elk as well.

I love how clean the sight picture is with a single pin but the practicality of a fixed multi pin wins out for me in hunting situations. If you go the multi pin route and still like the ability to dial your yardage with a single pin I'd recommend you look at a Trophy Taker Option sight. They come in 3, 4, 6, and 8 pin models but you can order one with however many pins you want. The nice thing about them is you have however many fixed pins you want plus one floating pin you can dial yardage with. The one I got is an Option 6, so I have my 5 fixed pins set for 20-60 and can dial the yardage on the floating pin (6th pin). I can shoot it as a 6 pin sight or pivot the 5 pin housing out of the way and shoot it as a single pin sight. The entire housing never moves, so my 20-60 pins never change the yardage they are set for. It's a pretty sweet sight for going the multi pin route and still be able to dial the yardage for long stuff.

 

[Broz]

That trophy taker option sight looks very nice and could cover about any situation.

 

[5MilesBack]

I'm a Spot Hogg guy, and I love my 7 pins. Never have to think about it or adjust. At 58lbs your cut on contact Montec should blow right through a broadside elk at 50. At other angles.......maybe not.

But if you really do get back into it, being a LR rifle guy, I'm sure you'll want to start shooting further just for the heck of it. I was just at the range today shooting mostly at 100....fun stuff.

Good luck.....nothing like taking elk with a bow. I don't have to worry much about penetration as I'm shooting a 532gr arrow at 289fps.

 

[theleo91386]

That trophy taker option sight looks very nice and could cover about any situation.

For how much mine cost, it better! I like having the ability to make a ton of adjustments to to set things up just the way I want and still keep things fairly idiot proof for when I'm concentrated on an animal, I get that with my Option sight. With the oblong housing set as far out on the dovetail as I can get it, it bottoms out at 110 yards. I'm not looking to shoot an animal that far but it's great practice. It's really convenient to have a fixed 5 pin fixed sight I can easily and accurately shoot out that far with. It's a great blend of the single pin HHA sight I had and the 5 pin Armortech I have on my backup bow.

 

[Broz]

I went to a local shop tonight and got some supplies to freshen up my bow. I looked over many of these sights. Then I walked out to give it some more thought. I like the clean window I am use to with my old out dated fixed single pin. But really see where a 3 pin slider could cover all the bases. The MT Black Gold 3 pin slider was almost coming home with me but decided to ponder more. A friend has a single pin slider made by Trophy Ridge. Its new as he won it at an archery shoot. I want to look at it to. I am so use to a single pin that just may work. A single pin sighted in to be dead on at 30 should be close to 4 or 5" high at 20 and 4 or 5" low at 40 yards. I could hunt with that and dial for a little longer shot if I ever felt the need. Also could dial for longer practice. Better sleep on this or see what you all say from here. You all have educated me very well and very fast. I appreciate the help.

Jeff

 

[doverpack12]

I would still choose MT Black Gold. They are very durable. If something were to happen and you needed a part they will have it to you in one day or you could drive there a pick it up in Belgrade. Very nice people to talk to on the phone. I would suggest you go with a sight base option that allows third axis adjustment. Not absolutely necessary but I feel it is pretty important to keep you hitting correctly on angled shots. They don't have to be that steep for third axis to make a difference. With your knowledge of drops I think a single pin is perfect and set it somewhere that allows for approximately equal drop to 20 and 40.

One more thing to consider is the Trophy Ridge may not be all metal. The HHA may not be all metal either sometimes their sight base is plastic.

As far as energy with your arrow and draw weight you will be just fine out to 50. Montecs penetrate well and unless you hit the shoulder I would think your arrow will still pass through or at least be coming out the far side.

 

[OG DramaLlama]

I'm a MBG accent shooter with the three pin slider. My preference is for simplicity for the close shots but ability to dial for when I have the time.

When I was looking to buy mine the owner of a local shop here in Boise was extremely helpful in the process. S&S Archery:

MBG review Part 1-

Review of the Montana Black Gold Ascent Part 1 by SandSarchery.com - YouTube

MBG Part 2-

Review of the Montana Black Gold Ascent Part 2 by SandSarchery.com - YouTube

Selecting the right slider tape-

How to select the right sight tape for your slider sight - YouTube

For dialing my recommendation is to look at one of the online programs to get your bow dialed in. Very helpful in sight tapes creation. For the effective range in the 20-40 yds, probably not that big of a difference, but when you start to practice at longer ranges the difference can be dramatic.

I use TAP, The Archery Program, but have read and heard great thing about Archers Advantage.

As you knock more of the dust off with more practice and extend your effective range the 2nd and 3rd axis adjustments are very important.

3rd axis leveling

3rd Axis Leveling - YouTube

Good luck!

Josh


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[Broz]

All good points and makes me dig deeper to understand. One other thing is I will be using a Sig Kilo 2000 for an rf for archery. It does have a corrected shoot to distance that includes shot angle.

Going to practice today with my old Model T sight from 15 yrs ago. Single fixed pin I am going to zero at 30 yards. Then shoot 20 and 40 with it to see how that works out and how my groups look.

I am also going to screw in a few more pounds of draw weight. 60 just sounds better than 58. LOL

Tomorrow I will be able to get my hands on the Trophy Ridge site. If it is not of top quality I will have no part of it. I learned long ago with my long range rifle gear, cry once.


Jeff

 

[Broz]

Did some testing and confirming today.

Arrows average weight with montec broad heads are 390 gr.

Bow on my scale pulls 61 # but need to confirm as I think my scale is low. Will go to a bow shop and try their scale soon.

Average arrow speed through a chronograph is 270 fps.

Tried the Trophy Ridge single pin slider. It ain't going to cut it. Sight height maxed out of adjustment, you need to be 1/2 way up the slider scale for a 20 yard zero.

My bow likes a 30 yard zero. Only an inch or two high at 20.

Going to buy a good sight. Thinking a Montana Black Gold Pure with 3 axis leveling. Just not sure if I want a single pin or 3 pin. To be determined.............

50 yards is a long darn shot for me. Thinking my rifles make me look like a stud.

Jeff