Point Creep - is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

cal30_sniper

Lil-Rokslider
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That lab grown meat revolution cannot come fast enough I guess.
I’m pretty certain you could cut the entire 2% of welfare beef out of the meat market and never notice a difference at the butcher shop.

Based on the country I usually see them running BLM Burgers on around here, the only people who’d probably notice are the guys buying their beef from the Walmart discount aisle.
 

OMB

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I’m pretty certain you could cut the entire 2% of welfare beef out of the meat market and never notice a difference at the butcher shop.

Based on the country I usually see them running BLM Burgers on around here, the only people who’d probably notice are the guys buying their beef from the Walmart discount aisle.
have you tried to get a steer in at any rural locker right now? We're booked for February 2022 for our next and slaughtering our own in between to keep up on beef consumption. The people buying Beyond meat aren't appreciably affecting the beef supply, but they are probably hitting the non-resident elk tag application supply right now.
 

Fatcamp

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This is pure gold. I 100% agree w you - we need to start spreading this word! Everything comes at the expense of something else. The number of cattle on OUR lands is absolutely ridiculous and the #1 factor restricting big game numbers at this time

My favorite is when the public land is grazed down to nothing but the private adjacent to it is lush and green. And yes, I know for a fact the same ranchers are on both. So lame.
 

cal30_sniper

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have you tried to get a steer in at any rural locker right now? We're booked for February 2022 for our next and slaughtering our own in between to keep up on beef consumption. The people buying Beyond meat aren't appreciably affecting the beef supply, but they are probably hitting the non-resident elk tag application supply right now.
Beef, like every other commodity on planet earth, is in high demand right now. However, I haven’t had any issues getting my hands on a (real) steak whenever I want one. What I have had issue with, is the lack of any appreciable ungulate population on NF and BLM land that is absolutely overrun with beef cattle being grazed at far below market price. The entire system is set up to encourage overgrazing of public land at taxpayer expense, which is exactly what it does.

Removing ~2% of beef supply would not have an appreciable impact on food supply. It would, I hypothesize, have a rather large impact on public wildlife supply. It’s not just ‘hunting pressure’ that keeps public land wildlife numbers artificially depressed.
 

cal30_sniper

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My favorite is when the public land is grazed down to nothing but the private adjacent to it is lush and green. And yes, I know for a fact the same ranchers are on both. So lame.
That is exactly how they are intended to operate. The public land is used to graze all summer while they put up hay on the private land to get the core herd through the winter. In the late fall, the herd comes off public per the grazing agreement (if its followed, and if there’s even one in place), and the surplus is sent to market. The remainder of the herd winters on the good feed on private land prior to calving and moving back to public in the spring.

Like I said, hunting pressure isn’t the only reason private land hunts are usually so much higher quality.
 
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As someone with points in multiple states, I wish state would do away with them and do a random draw. With NR allotted tags decreasing in multiple states, the creep will only get worse.
 

Wags

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I’m 40, only have limited points out there & just accept that I’ll only get 1 good draw before I age out. It sucks but it’s true. Hell I don’t even apply for elk & antelope in my own state because there’s 0 chance I’ll ever reach the points to draw.
 
OP
satchamo

satchamo

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I have little sympathy for people that can't be bothered to learn how a states draw system works, do some basic math, then get butt hurt when they don't draw.

I’m not really sure who this was directed at but if it was me - I’m far from butt hurt about not drawing. I’m not entitled to a tag. We all understand “the math” - there are 100 websites out there that do that for you. But you also can’t “do the math” when wyoming slashes antelope quotas in half the year you finally apply for a tag. I work in analytics for a living - I have spreadsheets and spreadsheets built of my own for drawing odds.
 

5MilesBack

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As someone with points in multiple states, I wish state would do away with them and do a random draw. With NR allotted tags decreasing in multiple states, the creep will only get worse.
Ya, and if every state went with random draws, you could go a lifetime and never draw a single tag. That's how random draws work, and the odds keep getting worse for the current random draws just as point creep gets worse too. There's no easy answer that suddenly makes it easier to draw tags for anyone. The easiest to draw tags are the low point tags based on the point system.
 

Fordguy

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My favorite is when the public land is grazed down to nothing but the private adjacent to it is lush and green. And yes, I know for a fact the same ranchers are on both. So lame.
This! This is what I saw last year. It was frustrating to say the least. Not much chance of success hunting in a dry lot. Overuse is abuse.
 
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Ya, and if every state went with random draws, you could go a lifetime and never draw a single tag. That's how random draws work, and the odds keep getting worse for the current random draws just as point creep gets worse too. There's no easy answer that suddenly makes it easier to draw tags for anyone. The easiest to draw tags are the low point tags based on the point system.
Good points and I agree with you, but the current system for preference points in broken in some states. Tags should never take 20+ years to draw, maybe a bonus system that squares points would be better? I’ve been a point behind for 4 years running, I’ve heard other guys that have been a point behind for almost 10 years. I think a mix of quality general tags and random draw could work. Gives hunters opportunity to hunt and draw a good tag. Similar to what Idaho had prior to changing it this year, it should have went to zones instead of specific units IMO. But there is probably no right answer to the point creep, which is why it exists I guess.
 

Chrisamx

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It's worse here in CA, where there is little movement due to lack of tags. Most here with max points for sheep and elk, will die with max points. It's kind of hard to justify having a point system when so little are rewarded by it. Of course some will make it, maybe enough to keep the illusion of hope alive and cash flowing in to the State.
 

wapitibob

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I’m not really sure who this was directed at but if it was me - I’m far from butt hurt about not drawing. I’m not entitled to a tag. We all understand “the math” - there are 100 websites out there that do that for you. But you also can’t “do the math” when wyoming slashes antelope quotas in half the year you finally apply for a tag. I work in analytics for a living - I have spreadsheets and spreadsheets built of my own for drawing odds.

It's directed at the people who can't be bothered to understand draws and do simple research, then complain about not drawing.
 
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Squaring points wont magically make you in the running if you are a point behind.

If the unit you are putting in for takes 10 points and you have 9. The guy with 10 points will now have 100 and you have 81. Your now 19 points behind.
It won’t magically fix it, but it would give you a better chance of drawing. In my state, 75% of tags go to the top point holders and 25% random. Being 1 point behind means I’m in the 25% pool and have below a 3% chance, some hunts are below .5% chance. If points were squares and tag were all drawn from that pool it allows more opportunity to get randomly draw.
 

wapitibob

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Good points and I agree with you, but the current system for preference points in broken in some states. Tags should never take 20+ years to draw, maybe a bonus system that squares points would be better? I’ve been a point behind for 4 years running, I’ve heard other guys that have been a point behind for almost 10 years. I think a mix of quality general tags and random draw could work. Gives hunters opportunity to hunt and draw a good tag. Similar to what Idaho had prior to changing it this year, it should have went to zones instead of specific units IMO. But there is probably no right answer to the point creep, which is why it exists I guess.

1,800 people applying for 40 tags, let me know how you're going to turn that into a less than 20 year wait.
 

CorbLand

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It won’t magically fix it, but it would give you a better chance of drawing. In my state, 75% of tags go to the top point holders and 25% random. Being 1 point behind means I’m in the 25% pool and have below a 3% chance, some hunts are below .5% chance. If points were squares and tag were all drawn from that pool it allows more opportunity to get randomly draw.
It makes a little sense if its a bonus point system but squaring does nothing if its a preference point. All squaring really does is give those that have been in the system longer a higher number of points but if everyone is moving in the same direction at the same speed, nobody is going to get there any faster.

Overall, the problem is point systems, so we can keep treating the symptoms or fix the problem. Straight random, everyone has an equal shot.
 
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It makes a little sense if its a bonus point system but squaring does nothing if its a preference point. All squaring really does is give those that have been in the system longer a higher number of points but if everyone is moving in the same direction at the same speed, nobody is going to get there any faster.

Overall, the problem is point systems, so we can keep treating the symptoms or fix the problem. Straight random, everyone has an equal shot.
I agree and that’s what I said in a previous post. Points are the issue, do away with them and have ample general hunting opportunities. Allows guys to apply and still hunt if unsuccessful.
 

cal30_sniper

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I agree and that’s what I said in a previous post. Points are the issue, do away with them and have ample general hunting opportunities. Allows guys to apply and still hunt if unsuccessful.

Which is exactly how it is now. If you want to go hunt, apply for a unit that takes less points to draw, go to a secondary/leftover draw, or buy an OTC tag. Plenty of opportunities to go hunting multiple times every year.
 
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