Predator hunting rifles and optics

mcseal2

WKR
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
2,671
I know this has been discussed multiple times, but for some of the newer predator hunters I thought I'd put up a few things I've learned over the years.

I'm going to stick to rifles and not shotguns because that's what I primarily use calling and know best.

I really think it takes a couple rifles to be set up ideally for predators. It can darn sure be done with one, but I feel like 2 works best. Here is what I'm currently using and why. It's not my ideal pair but it does the job well enough I haven't bought anything else.

I do 80% of my calling now with a DPMS Prairie Panther AR in 223 with a Leupold 3.5-10x scope with the B&C reticle. I shoot a reman ammo with a 55gr V max at 2962fps that it likes best. It's a particular rifle on ammo, but this economical load it loves. The rifle has an aftermarket 2lb trigger and a mount on the forend for a Primos Rapid Pivot Bipod.

This rifle does a nice job on coyotes at normal calling ranges without being to destructive on smaller varmints. I do wish sometimes that it thumped harder, I have more coyotes spin or run after a shot than I have with a faster 22 or the 6mm stuff. I take most of my calling shots inside 120 yards and this gun works great there. It does the job on longer shots too as long as I get a facing or broadside shot. The slower velocity of my load fits better with the B&C reticle than with some of the varmint oriented reticles. I did the final zero of my scope by shooting a 300 yard target with my 300 yard crosshair. That puts me on target at ranges shorter than that, while giving me confidence on the longer shots. After zeroing at 300 yards this way I checked my 100yd zero so I know how high it needs to be when I do a quick check on the range in my yard.

For the other 20% of my calling and for my "truck gun" I like more power. While the 223/V max combo I shoot does a good job under good conditions I also like having a rifle that is more forgiving. I generally go to a 243 but the 22-250, 25-06, or lots of others in that area work too. For me this rifle needs to be able to push a bullet capable of breaking down a coyote running straight away from me fast enough that I can hold on hair out to around 300 yards. When I'm carrying this rifle it's usually because coyotes are spooky, wind is high, or the terrain is really open. Also it's generally a spot where I expect only coyotes and not smaller predators. I have went away from using the VH style reticles on these rifles over the last few years. I have decided it's better for me to zero for the most mid-range rise I am willing to accept (2.8" for me) to get the longest possible range I can shoot without much worry about hold over. Using a reticle like the Leupold Varmint Hunter calls for a 200 yard zero which means I'm having to use the reticle for hold-over at 250 and 300 yards. I would rather zero for further and hold on hair at those ranges. In the past I shot a 6mm Remington pushing a 70gr Ballistic tip at 3824fps that flat smoked coyotes inside 350 yards without much worry about elevation. I've also used 243's with a variety of 70-85gr bullets at 3100 to 3400fps. Those were harder on coyotes at times than I'd like and were really hard on anything smaller. Right now I'm experimenting with a pair of 243's. One is shooting a 69 grain Berger at 3374fps and the other is pushing a 58gr V max at 3841fps. I haven't got enough shot with them to know how well I like these bullets just yet.

These rifles have scopes in the 3-18x or 4-16x range. Calling I prefer at least a 30ft field of view at 100yds on the lowest power. For a truck gun anything with a bottom end of 6x or lower has worked fine for me.

I have shot a 264 win mag on deer and antelope and a 300 win mag on anything bigger for a while now. I always figured if I could only have one rifle for big game I'd split the difference and have a 7mm Rem Mag. I have a similar set-up for coyotes. I use the 223 and 243, but if I could only have one I'd split the difference with a 22-250.

On a typical day calling I'll have both a 243 and the AR in the vehicle with me. The AR will stay in my Eberlestock ready to go calling when I leave the truck or UTV. The 243 will be next to me in case I spot one while going between stands in the pastures. A coyote I spot then will likely be either running away when I shoot it or stop to look back at longer range. I'll likely be shooting quick and estimating range so the flatter shooting and harder hitting rifle makes my job easier.

I have gone to using scopes where I dial the range for big game almost exclusively. Generally whether ambush hunting or spot and stalking I have time to dial the range before a shot if it's long enough to justify it. Coyotes I just don't get that opportunity that often. It seems that a coyote doesn't stay put in one spot long enough for me to range him and dial his exact range into the scope very often. I'm better off ranging objects when I can before starting a calling set and then using knowledge of my rifle to estimate from there. Dialing is great when there is time, I just don't often get that time. Also I can very very rarely ever get prone where I call to get stable enough to take the shots past that 300-350yd range where dialing would be really beneficial. Also the cheapest scopes I'd use that I trust to dial correctly are around $750 and a good standard scope can be had for around a third of that. We just have to tall of grass. I use a tripod set-up that lets me shoot further from a higher position for big game, but it's slower to get on target with than my bipod for predators. In my area I've decided being set up for that much precision costs more fur than it gains.

Anyway just figured I'd put that out in case it would help anyone. As I hit and miss more coyotes and technology changes so do my set-ups, but this is where I'm at now.
 
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Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
1,104
Location
Pennsylvania
Good info for a beginner looking for a solid setup. Im pretty new to it but I have a Ruger American 22-250 with a 4-14 power ontop and long enough harris bipod that I can shoot in the sitting position. I filled the stock with epoxy and lead shot so its dead steady to shoot and can usually spot hits. This is Pennsylvania and most shots are less than 200. I would really like to do some western style predator hunting.
 
OP
mcseal2

mcseal2

WKR
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
2,671
Just experimented with a new bullet in my AR tonight. I tried Hornady's Superformance 73 grain ELD-M loads after reading some reviews about it opening well on groundhogs and prairie dogs. It's advertised to have a .398 BC and shoot 2930fps from a 24" barrel. It shot great from my rifle's 1 in 8 twist 20" barrel at 2785fps. I shot four 5 shot groups and the largest was .5" at 100 yards. It even shoots flatter than the fairly slow 55 grain load my rifle likes. I'm hoping this will perform well and become my new harder hitting coyote load. The ballistics fit the B&C reticle I have pretty well too.
 

McCrackin

FNG
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
63
Thanks for your info. I set up with a Ruger 204, shooting a 32grn. V-Max. I've dropped 'em in their tracks from 175-400. Shoots fast/flat, not a lot of elevation adjustments to deal with. Shooting a Ruger m77 Varmiter, bull-barrel.
 
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
328
Location
Stevens County, WA
Im generally a low tech, lever action / bolt action kind of guy, but ive been thinking lately that for the way i call, and the country i hunt, and the animals im hunting that a good all purpose predator gun would probably be a light weight ar in .223 with a reflex sight and a suppressor. My shot opportunities tend to be close, and in areas that arent exactly wide open like desert / farm land coyote hunting. Targeting lions, coyotes and bobcat. .22 centerfire is minimum legal for lions here, but i feel it would do the trick at close range. It may be a bit more than necessary for bobcat, but its the smallest legal round i could yse on lions, so a good all around compromise. I really know nothing about ars or reflex sights though. Ill need to do my homework before dumping money. Probably wait until next winter to get a setup like this.
 

Alchemy

WKR
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
633
Good points on guns, main thing I see guys that just start out is putting to much glass on the rifle. I have invited many of folks and they typically show up with a gun you would take to a prairie dog town. 12 pounds of pretty wood and metal with a 6-24X scope. After they shoot 2 coyotes at 80 yards and walk 5 stands in a morning they start getting very inquisitive about my setup. Keep it simple
 

Txrookie

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
241
I also run an AR in .223 and a bolt action .243. The AR has a 4x acog with an rmr on top. I really like this setup for night time calling. They tend to be 100 yard or less shots at night for us. My only gripe on this setup is they heavy stock trigger. I just posted another thread wondering if 3 was too light but I see that you use a 2. Any problems? My .243 has a Nikon 3-12 and it’s my go to for daytime, the shots tend to be a little farther and the gun just feels good.
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
2,051
I know this has been discussed multiple times, but for some of the newer predator hunters I thought I'd put up a few things I've learned over the years.

I'm going to stick to rifles and not shotguns because that's what I primarily use calling and know best.

I really think it takes a couple rifles to be set up ideally for predators. It can darn sure be done with one, but I feel like 2 works best. Here is what I'm currently using and why. It's not my ideal pair but it does the job well enough I haven't bought anything else.

I do 80% of my calling now with a DPMS Prairie Panther AR in 223 with a Leupold 3.5-10x scope with the B&C reticle. I shoot a reman ammo with a 55gr V max at 2962fps that it likes best. It's a particular rifle on ammo, but this economical load it loves. The rifle has an aftermarket 2lb trigger and a mount on the forend for a Primos Rapid Pivot Bipod.

This rifle does a nice job on coyotes at normal calling ranges without being to destructive on smaller varmints. I do wish sometimes that it thumped harder, I have more coyotes spin or run after a shot than I have with a faster 22 or the 6mm stuff. I take most of my calling shots inside 120 yards and this gun works great there. It does the job on longer shots too as long as I get a facing or broadside shot. The slower velocity of my load fits better with the B&C reticle than with some of the varmint oriented reticles. I did the final zero of my scope by shooting a 300 yard target with my 300 yard crosshair. That puts me on target at ranges shorter than that, while giving me confidence on the longer shots. After zeroing at 300 yards this way I checked my 100yd zero so I know how high it needs to be when I do a quick check on the range in my yard.

For the other 20% of my calling and for my "truck gun" I like more power. While the 223/V max combo I shoot does a good job under good conditions I also like having a rifle that is more forgiving. I generally go to a 243 but the 22-250, 25-06, or lots of others in that area work too. For me this rifle needs to be able to push a bullet capable of breaking down a coyote running straight away from me fast enough that I can hold on hair out to around 300 yards. When I'm carrying this rifle it's usually because coyotes are spooky, wind is high, or the terrain is really open. Also it's generally a spot where I expect only coyotes and not smaller predators. I have went away from using the VH style reticles on these rifles over the last few years. I have decided it's better for me to zero for the most mid-range rise I am willing to accept (2.8" for me) to get the longest possible range I can shoot without much worry about hold over. Using a reticle like the Leupold Varmint Hunter calls for a 200 yard zero which means I'm having to use the reticle for hold-over at 250 and 300 yards. I would rather zero for further and hold on hair at those ranges. In the past I shot a 6mm Remington pushing a 70gr Ballistic tip at 3824fps that flat smoked coyotes inside 350 yards without much worry about elevation. I've also used 243's with a variety of 70-85gr bullets at 3100 to 3400fps. Those were harder on coyotes at times than I'd like and were really hard on anything smaller. Right now I'm experimenting with a pair of 243's. One is shooting a 69 grain Berger at 3374fps and the other is pushing a 58gr V max at 3841fps. I haven't got enough shot with them to know how well I like these bullets just yet.

These rifles have scopes in the 3-18x or 4-16x range. Calling I prefer at least a 30ft field of view at 100yds on the lowest power. For a truck gun anything with a bottom end of 6x or lower has worked fine for me.

I have shot a 264 win mag on deer and antelope and a 300 win mag on anything bigger for a while now. I always figured if I could only have one rifle for big game I'd split the difference and have a 7mm Rem Mag. I have a similar set-up for coyotes. I use the 223 and 243, but if I could only have one I'd split the difference with a 22-250.

On a typical day calling I'll have both a 243 and the AR in the vehicle with me. The AR will stay in my Eberlestock ready to go calling when I leave the truck or UTV. The 243 will be next to me in case I spot one while going between stands in the pastures. A coyote I spot then will likely be either running away when I shoot it or stop to look back at longer range. I'll likely be shooting quick and estimating range so the flatter shooting and harder hitting rifle makes my job easier.

I have gone to using scopes where I dial the range for big game almost exclusively. Generally whether ambush hunting or spot and stalking I have time to dial the range before a shot if it's long enough to justify it. Coyotes I just don't get that opportunity that often. It seems that a coyote doesn't stay put in one spot long enough for me to range him and dial his exact range into the scope very often. I'm better off ranging objects when I can before starting a calling set and then using knowledge of my rifle to estimate from there. Dialing is great when there is time, I just don't often get that time. Also I can very very rarely ever get prone where I call to get stable enough to take the shots past that 300-350yd range where dialing would be really beneficial. Also the cheapest scopes I'd use that I trust to dial correctly are around $750 and a good standard scope can be had for around a third of that. We just have to tall of grass. I use a tripod set-up that lets me shoot further from a higher position for big game, but it's slower to get on target with than my bipod for predators. In my area I've decided being set up for that much precision costs more fur than it gains.

Anyway just figured I'd put that out in case it would help anyone. As I hit and miss more coyotes and technology changes so do my set-ups, but this is where I'm at now.

Now that was a great post - appreciate the insight.

I’ve got dogs behind my house (1500’, sage country canyon) and just built a 6.5 Grendel that I was hoping to rain hell on em if I can ever get a day off. Also have 25-06, and maybe five 5.56 or Wylde rifles (and an AAC). Any more tips on stacking em high would be very much appreciated.

Seems this time of year the male call brings them in... though I’m swinging at the piñata with not much experience since the old Johnny Stewart cassette tape calls and whacking bobcats with Mark IIs.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
886
Location
Montana
I got a older savage 24v. 223 on top over 20 ga. Love it for predator hunting. Its the best of both worlds in a single shot. Lacks rapid follow up shots but also teaches patience and shot placement.
 
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Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Messages
4,807
Location
Colorado
I usually use a 16” AR with a 1-8x scope for coyotes and such, but I recently built a 16” 6.5 Grendel. I put a 2-12x scope on it and it shoots incredibly well. Both guns are light enough for me to carry all day if I need to.
 
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mcseal2

mcseal2

WKR
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
2,671
I have not been out yet this year, but have shot several opportunistic coyotes. Deer season ends today and we have about 8" of fresh snow accumulated so far, so I will be out after the coyotes this week every chance I get.

I don't have a ton of tips I haven't already discussed on other threads. It comes down to not getting seen, heard, or smelled getting into stands and playing the wind to get a coyote to show up where you can get a shot at him. I often like to set up with a small waterway or something the coyote can follow toward my E call with the wind in his face. I set up far enough to the side my scent blows over wide open field. The coyote has enough cover to feel somewhat safe approaching, but not enough that I can't get a shot. All areas don't offer a scenario like that, but if it's there I take it.

The 73gr ELD-X has performed very well on 3 coyotes so far. I'm liking the load. It exits and isn't quite as fur friendly, but the exits aren't to big. None of the 3 have gone far after the shot at all. Ranges were from 150 to 300 yards.
 

7stw

WKR
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
500
Location
north of okc
I have killed coyotes with everything from a 22 mag to a 340 Weatherby and about everything between. I hunt a lot and call year round. I primarily use a 7mm-08 ackley with 140 gn Barnes Ttsx bullets it’s probably more gun but I don’t lose very many even from marginal hits. I use a 220 swift and 6 creed as well. I use 55gn vmax out of the swift and 95gn Nosler bt’s out of the creed surprisingly the 140’s are the most fur friendly. I don’t care for ar’s personally have had to many issues with them in the past. So I only use bolts


Optics wise 3.5-15 or 2.5-10 has been what I’ve found for a sweet spot I prefer a drop style reticle for longer shots but with those three and knowing my drops I don’t need them unless I am shooting past 300 yards and have found on longer shots you generally get more time (most long shots are either dogs that have hung up or are unaware I’m there).


I seem to kill as many with a shotgun as I do the rifle I carry both on every set unless I’m calling wheat fields where the shots will be long. I shoot a browning bps 10 gauge with 2 oz lead bb and a .690 choke

I tell a lot of people who ask whatever you deer hunt with will work for coyotes. If you decide you like calling predators then a fast 22 or 6mm will suit you well.


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Blakelok

FNG
Joined
Dec 16, 2019
Messages
60
I just put together a .224 Valkyrie for this purpose. $550 in the gun taking advantage of Christmas specials.
 

LETR_BUCK

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
135
Location
HELENA MT
Way more into this rifle than I should be but it is a coyote hammer! 22-250 krg stock, proof barrel, Timney trigger, lots of fancy things. Bad medicine on song dogs. Enjoy coyote hunting more than most big game hunting.
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3sdad

FNG
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
74
Location
Idaho
I think the perfect rifle for coyotes only is a lightweight and compact 204, shooting 40 grn vmax. A scope in the 4-14 range, the 4 being the more important number. And I prefer shooting sticks over bipod every time. Sticks can be manipulated much easier on the fly or can be dropped all together if you need to quickly/discreetly move for a shot, especially follow ups. A good butt pad to keep warm is a must, and a light weight 22 pistol is a bonus. I have recovered the last 38-40 coyotes all between 10 and 425 yards. Probably only 6 more dogs I didn't get a shot at as well as 1 bobcat and 2 fox that were out of season. All things considered, my setup has treated me well. If only I would have known all this 13 years ago
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
687
OP, have you ever tested a 204 shooting 40gr pills? The ballistics should be better than almost any 223 and most 22-250s with “standard” twist rates? Would be interested. I have a 204 that I’m just shooting 32gr vmax out of, but only like 25” of drop at 400 yards with a 100 yard zero is pretty hard to beat. Closer shots can get messy since it’s going around 4000fps but it’s really not bad. Ammo isn’t too expensive either


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cmahoney

WKR
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
2,225
Location
Minden Nevada
I really like the .204’s but what keeps me from using one is they aren’t legal for big game in Nevada, which includes lions.


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