Prepurchase Exams

[missjordan]

I’m curious to see how many people are having pre purchase exams conducted on a new horse or mule. Requesting vet records, Flexion tests, x rays, combination of all 3, or nothing at all and going with your own personal assessment of the animal?


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[FLAK]

I thought this was about College.

 

[rayporter]

if we are spending a serious amount of money or we are selling one for a serious amount of money a pre purchase exam [by the buyer] is a no brainer.

now for the average person it depends on your level of equine knowledge. if i am spending 5,000 i can make my own judgement.

if you are getting your first animal and know nothing it is a good idea. and it is a good idea to take that animal to a vet every year. an equine vet. shots, worming, teeth as well as lameness are some reasons.

some of you will be traveling across state lines and there are tests and health papers needed you may not know about. some times there are diseases that you need to know about in various states, too. for instance, one year left ohio and were not allowed back into the state if we had been in colorado. i got around that by keeping the stock in arkansas.

health papers are only good for 30 days.

 

[Chase0109]

Very rarely do I comment as I feel I don’t know enough to add anything to most of the stock conversations. But I do read all of the posts on here and pick up lots of new tips from all the experienced guys on here. This is a topic I can actually comment on from personal experience and as a new to horses person.

As a newcomer to horses (bought my first 2 and only personal horses last summer), I read everything I could on the selection and buying processes. Seems like everything in print recommends Pre Purchase Exams (PPE). I absolutely will always 100% do a PPE before buying any horse ever. A lot of that has to do with my lack of experience with horses. I have learned a ton over the last year with my horses, but I have barely scratched the surface so far. Personally I doubt I will ever own enough horses in my lifetime to ever be good enough to get around a PPE. A little story on PPE and how they saved me a lot of time and money.

The first horse I purchased was contingent on a passing PPE. I looked at a lot of horses and when I test rode this one I thought he was about perfect. 12 year old QH gelding was a cutting horse when he was young then a ranch horse after that. Very easy going, calm, super smooth gait transitions, never had to ask for anything twice, and neck reigned like a dream. I agreed to buy him on the spot pursuant to him passing a PPE. Took him to my vet a few days later and got the bad news that he had front and back end lameness issues plus some pretty major dental issues that would need fixing. As a newbie horse person looking for my first horse I didn’t see any of that when looking at him. After my vet explained everything to me and what they look for in PPE and lameness exams I could start to see things I had no clue about. Was sad to have to pass on the horse, but I needed a physically solid horse I could learn on and not something I needed to put lots of time and money into just to get to the point where he could be ridden comfortably. I did PPE on both of the 15 year old QH geldings I ended up buying. Revealed some very minor stuff but nothing unexpected for 15 year old horses. PPE may be the best money I have spent on horses (and I’ve spent alot, LOL) so far.

I have never asked for x-rays for what I do. If there is enough issue in the PPE to think about x-rays I know I’m already going to pass on buying. But I only use my horses for trail riding and elk hunting. Nothing fancy like top performance horses.

In my limited experience, I have asked for vet records on both my horses and the one in the above story at purchase time. Other than current cogging and most recent float record no one had any other vet records available. One of my horses the owner didn’t even have that and I had to have the coggins test done in the same county and wait for results before I could transport him out of the county and back home. Might just be the ways its done in my neck of the woods (central Texas).

In short, I would ask for vet records, always do a PPE, pass on any x-rays, not trust my personal evaluation without a PPE. Most of all trust my equine vet at the PPE and do what he recommends ie if he suggested flexion testing I would do it. This is of course coming from a newbie horse guy.

Chase

 

[rayporter]

excellent !^^

x-rays. if the vet does a good lamness test he will know if x rays are needed. if he dont think they are needed you should be good.

i know people that have owned horses for 50 years and dont know when something is wrong. people like that should take a horse to a vet yearly. with some knowledge and observation it is amazing what you can learn about sick and lame animals. for instance you can hear an off horse on a solid surface before you can see it.

with some help you can give shots and worm yourself. vet catalogs stock the things you need to keep vaccinations up to date.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

ALWAYS PRE PURCHASE by your vet. This will give you an idea of maintenance costs, problems that may come on, etc. a lot of times I will even ask for hoof xrays of the horse is doing more than trails. A foundered horse can hide a lot, til they don’t. Navicular is another. Arthritis in Hocks, your $1500 horse could turn into $4500 a year in maintenance. I’ve seen so many people get burned, it’s not even funny. I’ve been burned myself. I got a horse for free, I couldn’t let the horse go back to the old owner regardless, I spend about $3000 a year on this horse keeping him sound and he’s still a little lame but usable.

Pre purchase exams are a no brainer, if you don’t care and will ride a lame horse til it quits anyways then don’t worry about it. My horses are an asset to my business so spending money on a horse is an investment to my business. If they come up lame a few months later or a year and are unusable then I’m out money. Try to sell a lame horse that you can’t hide you may have paid $2500 for, you won’t be able to get rid of it for $500 hardly unless you run it through the sale and sell it for meat prices. There’s a lot of horses out there and even more that shouldn’t be walking.

I had a horse I could bute for a week and a vet could barely tell then take him off and anyone could tell. I always suggest taking the horse for a week or so for you to mess with and see then getting a vet check


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[rayporter]

how many keep a horse first aid kit?

 

[netman]

I’m very interested in this thread. Since I’m green and know absolutely nothing about mules or horse other than what I’ve learned in the past few months.
I test rode my mule, seen coggins and health certificate. I watched the mule walk from the front and back.
All the stuff I did I had read about. Nothing more. I paid $4000.00 for my mule.
Other than the saddle issue he’s been everything I was wanting.
My trainer told me my mule looked wormy. So I immediately took a stool sample to a equine vet near me and the test was negative.
So with all this knowledge I now have( I’m laughing and expect you to be doing so) I found a guy who deals in mules over in Missouri. The guy came highly recommended by a fifty year mule man.
I spoke to the guy over the phone. He said in order for him to pair up a mule for my wife he asked a million questions and I answered . He said he had over 40 mules currently but had two that he would suggest. I told him to send videos and pictures as I would talk to my wife about going and looking at his mules in the near future. Upon speaking to my wife we agreed on a date to go and confirmed the date with the seller.
A day before we leave the guy calls and said one of the mules he wanted my wife to ride had got pushed into a wire panel by another mule and had a laceration on her right shoulder. It was not into the muscle just cut the hide.
So we drive over and looked a Molly mule over. Test rode it. She was a little hard to catch. I asked about the one with the cut on its shoulder. He called her name and she came running. The wound didn’t look too bad o we looked it over and test rode it. She rode great. I wanted to buy her but I was worried about the wound. So the guy says put a deposit down and when she’s healed come and get her. So that’s what we did. He gave us the lady who owned it prior and her phone number.
I called her on the way home and got the life story of the mule and she the mule had no medical issues the lady said.
I spent a little more on this mule than mine.
That’s my summary of PPE.
I can say however these mules turn out down the road I’ll be getting a PPE on the next mules.
In all honesty I never thought to do this.

 

[missjordan]

how many keep a horse first aid kit?

I will when i get one purchased, probably will consistent of everything i would bring for myself for wound care: cleaning wipes, bandage/wrap. And for the animals Banamine and/or Bute paste


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[jmez]

You should have a PPE done when purchasing a horse or mule. It should be done by your veterinarian or the veterinarian you will be using if purchased. This part isn't always possible due to distances involved. If there is a distance factor then see if your veterinarian knows anyone in the area where the horse is that they would recommend. Often times they do. If you get resistance from the seller over a PPE that is an immediate red flag.

Your budget and tolerance for risk will dictate how extensive an exam needs to be done. Your veterinarian should discuss this with you and come up with a plan that you are comfortable with. Some veterinarians practice in a very defensive manner will have a standard exam that they will not deviate from. Some of these are very extensive and can run into thousands of dollars. IMO that is unnecessary and the exam should be tailored to the purchasers wants and needs.

If you are an inexperienced horse person you are going to get burned. There are "horse traders" everywhere just looking for someone to take advantage of. It even happens to experienced horse people. I see it all the time. There is nothing worse than thinking you have found the perfect animal and then being told three months later that they are unusable and pasture pets. You don't want to be in that situation.

Be realistic in your expectations. Most older horses are going to have some problems. Most of those problems can be dealt with and managed. If you are looking for a perfect animal you will look a long time.

I do this for a living, equine veterinarian. Do a PPE.

 

[netman]

Jmez is there a package first aid kit for equines you would recommend?

 

[jmez]

Not really. Most of them have a whole lot of stuff you don't need and are expensive.

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[jmez]

Depending on where you are going and what you will be doing I would just put a basic kit together.

 

[rayporter]

a bare minimum is a roll of vetwrap and a roll of duct tape. a kotex makes a fair pad for a dressing over a cut.

banamine is nice and i like to carry a small 4 oz bottle of concentrated disinfectant. a couple tablespoons in a quart of water and you can wash up a cut on you or the horse.

electrolytes are nice because you will be working your animal a lot and maybe a lot more than he is used to.
a long trip and poor drinking on the trip can dehydrate one fast and then add strange water and you have to watch them for a day or two.

i have been lucky but i have seen some bad injuries in the backcountry including dead ones.

 

[netman]

Depending on where you are going and what you will be doing I would just put a basic kit together.

I have a first aid kit I keep in my pack. I also keep one in my truck which I can perform out patient procedures.
Is there any item I might need just in case?

 

[jmez]

2 or 3 Large telfa pad, conforming gauze, brown gauze, vet wrap, elasticon.

1 roll of 18 inch gamgee wrap, jar of silvadene, bottle chlorhexidine. Bandage scissors.

Couple doses or small bottle of banamine. Easy boot.

That's really all you need. Stay away from duct tape. It will continue to tighten after you put it on and can cause pretty severe pressure sores. It works well on a hoof, don't put it on hair.

Cuts/ wounds above the knee in front or hock in the back are rarely serious. These always look bad but most heal without complications and little scarring. These wounds tend to be big and look horrible but look way worse than they really are.

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[Chase0109]

I have a first aid kit I keep in my pack. I also keep one in my truck which I can perform out patient procedures.
Is there any item I might need just in case?

This is a great question. And thanks to Ray for bringing up first aid kits. I carry some basics. Vet wrap, wound tape, gauze, Neosporin, Bute paste, Banamine for colic, Dormosedan gel oral sedative. If there are any other glaring first aid needs I'm missing I would be happy to learn about them?
I am not comfortable doing IV injections so I discussed oral options with my vet.

Another topic close to first aid might be shoes. I have had far more shoe issues than first aid issues.

I carry the Dormosedan in case I have to put a shoe on my riding horse. My riding horse is a bit of a pain and likes to pull his feet. My farrier prefers he is dosed when being shod or he's ready to kill my horse by the last shoe. I am no farrier! But I am friends with my farrier and he has taught me enough that I can tack a shoe back on. I carry basic farrier supplies and nails with me. I also carry 2 trail boots as well in case I lose a shoe in a place I can't take the time to tack it back on or lose it permanently. My farrier just shaped an extra set of heel-toe shoes last week for each horse. I keep them in the trailer in case I lose a shoe and can't find it. Having an extra set is definitely overkill for most. I am leaving on Sunday and between my colorado elk tag, and 3 WY elk tags I'll be keeping the horses on the road and in the mountains for about 40 days straight. So I may be a bit over-prepared. Trail boots are relatively cheap and can really save the day.

Shoes were not something I thought much about when I first got horses (other than having a farrier do it). But if you lose a shoe 8 miles from the trailhead (happened last year) without a good plan in place you're in a bit of trouble. Just thought it might be a helpful topic to other new horse people like myself.

Chase

 

[jmez]

You can use injectable banamine orally. It is actually better absorbed orally than banamine paste and cost far less.

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[missjordan]

You can use injectable banamine orally. It is actually better absorbed orally than banamine paste and cost far less.

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I did not know this so I’m glad you mentioned it. Injectable banamine has always weirded me out with how it triggers Clostridial myositis in some horses


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[jmez]

All the anti inflammatories have an acidic pH. Very irritating to tissue, that's why they can predispose to a clostridial infection if given IM.

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