Probably overkill, but... what about this pulley system for drop hunt?

[Panhandler80]

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--40mm-carbo-air-triple-block--200167?recordNum=1

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--40mm-carbo-air-triple-block-with-becket--200183?recordNum=2

9.2 oz for both blocks and 1,455 max working load. A bit pricey, but I can get them a little cheaper than this. Was thinking about this and some dyneema, or other high end and light line. Obviously with the triple block set up (six runs total), you'll need a lot of line to stretch any distance.

Is anything out there pre-made (other than rock climbing...$$$$$) options I should be looking at? I'd rather buy something with actual wheels and bearings than try to fashion a z-drag type deal with carabiners, etc.

Looks like 1/8 Dyneema (would need to wrap around a tool, or limb to make handle at that narrow size) is like 2,400# and weighs a whopping 6.5 oz per 100 feet.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

Here is what I've always used...I leave it in the canoe until needed: Maasdam Rope Puller

$73 at Alaska Industral Hardware https://www.aih.com/storefrontCommerce/itemDetail.do?item-id=10519&item-number=MADAO

 

[Panhandler80]

Here is what I've always used...I leave it in the canoe until needed: Maasdam Rope Puller

$73 at Alaska Industral Hardware https://www.aih.com/storefrontCommerce/itemDetail.do?item-id=10519&item-number=MADAO

Well, that would darn sure do the trick. A lot of weight and bulk, though. I'm looking at 4" blocks at 9.5 oz total (working load 1,455... breaking at approx 3,000) and 200 feet of line (2,400#) for under 1.5 pounds. of weight. Pricey, but...

 

[tdot]

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--40mm-carbo-air-triple-block--200167?recordNum=1

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--40mm-carbo-air-triple-block-with-becket--200183?recordNum=2

9.2 oz for both blocks and 1,455 max working load. A bit pricey, but I can get them a little cheaper than this. Was thinking about this and some dyneema, or other high end and light line. Obviously with the triple block set up (six runs total), you'll need a lot of line to stretch any distance.

Is anything out there pre-made (other than rock climbing...$$$$$) options I should be looking at? I'd rather buy something with actual wheels and bearings than try to fashion a z-drag type deal with carabiners, etc.

Looks like 1/8 Dyneema (would need to wrap around a tool, or limb to make handle at that narrow size) is like 2,400# and weighs a whopping 6.5 oz per 100 feet.

What do you want to lift? Moose in the air? Drag it out of the water? Or just secure a leg, head etc.?

And then, the all import part... what's your budget for this? There are some pretty high tech options in the sailing world right now, dyneema is revolutionizing sailboats right now, its made it alot of fun to work on the rigging of boats.

The Harken pulleys are older tech, there are lighter alternatives out there now.

Check out Colligo Marine and upffront.com

They will both give you a few more options.

For what it's worth. I built a cascade system out of 2mm Dyneema, some specific carabiners, some spliced connections and I was able to use it to lift a 200lb Mule deer off the ground by myself, quite easily, total weight was under 2 ounces

 

[Panhandler80]

What do you want to lift? Moose in the air? Drag it out of the water? Or just secure a leg, head etc.?

And then, the all import part... what's your budget for this? There are some pretty high tech options in the sailing world right now, dyneema is revolutionizing sailboats right now, its made it alot of fun to work on the rigging of boats.

The Harken pulleys are older tech, there are lighter alternatives out there now.

Check out Colligo Marine and upffront.com

They will both give you a few more options.

For what it's worth. I built a cascade system out of 2mm Dyneema, some specific carabiners, some spliced connections and I was able to use it to lift a 200lb Mule deer off the ground by myself, quite easily, total weight was under 2 ounces

Cool!

Most I'd ask of system is dragging moose out of water. Will also have a hunting partner along.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Keep in mind that dragging a 1500 pound bull...with all the friction...is still asking rope and components to handle a heavy load.

I went with 5/16" dyneema rope (Blue Water) because I wanted enough diameter to use with a Petzl Micro Traxion or other type of locking pulley. I constructed my own setup by hand picking the components I wanted. I realize that every pulling situation presents its own unique challenges, and it's good (for me) to have a range of components which allow me to rig as necessary.

 

[Panhandler80]

Keep in mind that dragging a 1500 pound bull...with all the friction...is still asking rope and components to handle a heavy load.

I went with 5/16" dyneema rope (Blue Water) because I wanted enough diameter to use with a Petzl Micro Traxion or other type of locking pulley. I constructed my own setup by hand picking the components I wanted. I realize that every pulling situation presents its own unique challenges, and it's good (for me) to have a range of components which allow me to rig as necessary.

Yeah... that's what I'm in the process of doing now. At least I think.

It would be nice to not worry about taking a shot on one if he was near water and within distance of something I could anchor a pulley system to. Especially if I can afford to have that luxury without adding much weight!

 

[Panhandler80]

And by overkill (in topic), I just meant putting something like this together at all. I'm sure many folks are capable of making absolutely certain a bull doesn't wind up in the water, and there are others who may not mind breaking one down in the water.

I think I'd rather have some tools at my disposal should I wind up in this situation. That's all. And if I'm going to bring something... I'd like it to be as light and low profile as possible, while STILL being functional.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Yeah... that's what I'm in the process of doing now. At least I think.

It would be nice to not worry about taking a shot on one if he was near water and within distance of something I could anchor a pulley system to. Especially if I can afford to have that luxury without adding much weight!

Well, I'm of the opinion that such a rig is incredibly valuable IF you ever need it. I've needed mine once and it saved me from a lot of extra work and time. I'll never go without a pulling rig again. I'm also of the notion that an adequately good rig is going to weigh some amount of pounds....not ounces. This is factoring in enough rope to do a serious pull, pulleys able to handle the load, and ground anchors....as a system with no way to anchor it is pretty useless.

1 pulley offers no mechanical advantage in terms of weight reduction.

2 pulleys means 50% reduction, and every pulley thereafter reduces the remaining load by another 50%.

If you start with a need to pull 1000 actual pounds of weight, it takes 3 pulleys to get the workload down to 250 pounds, and 4 will get you to 125 pounds....which is really about where you need to be unless you enjoy bragging about your new hernia or prolapsed hemorrhoid.

 

[tdot]

There are other systems, other then a standard 6:1 pulley system, they all start to depend on how complicated and/or how efficient you want to do the work.

There are frictional losses in any system, if I recall correctly a 6:1 has a system loss of something like 20%. Depending on how you reeve your pulleys (thread the line thru the pulleys) you can actually turn it into an 7:1, with the exact same amount of line used. An easy explanation is to count the number of lengths of rope that are pointing at the work (aka Moose), so if you orient the pulley with the becket at the Moose, there is an extra length of rope splitting the load.

Also look up how to reeve the pulleys properly. They should actually be 90 degrees to each other to be most efficient.

My favorite systems are cascades. With two double pulleys and two single pulleys, you can have either a 5:1, 10:1 or even a 20:1. Heck, add another pulley and you're at a 40:1.

One nice aspect of a cascade is that it uses less rope, and you can have multiple anchor points.

You essentially setup each single pulley to pull on the tail of either the double pulley or the previous single pulley. It's all based off of a knot called the Prussik, or you can use mechanical rope grabbers or I've also used a splice to do the work and built it in the field... same principle as how a whoopie sling works.

It takes a bit of messing about, but once you understand it and practice it a couple of times, it's pretty simple.

If you want I can sketch some of these idea's out.

 

[Panhandler80]

There are other systems, other then a standard 6:1 pulley system, they all start to depend on how complicated and/or how efficient you want to do the work.

There are frictional losses in any system, if I recall correctly a 6:1 has a system loss of something like 20%. Depending on how you reeve your pulleys (thread the line thru the pulleys) you can actually turn it into an 7:1, with the exact same amount of line used. An easy explanation is to count the number of lengths of rope that are pointing at the work (aka Moose), so if you orient the pulley with the becket at the Moose, there is an extra length of rope splitting the load.

Also look up how to reeve the pulleys properly. They should actually be 90 degrees to each other to be most efficient.

My favorite systems are cascades. With two double pulleys and two single pulleys, you can have either a 5:1, 10:1 or even a 20:1. Heck, add another pulley and you're at a 40:1.

One nice aspect of a cascade is that it uses less rope, and you can have multiple anchor points.

You essentially setup each single pulley to pull on the tail of either the double pulley or the previous single pulley. It's all based off of a knot called the Prussik, or you can use mechanical rope grabbers or I've also used a splice to do the work and built it in the field... same principle as how a whoopie sling works.

It takes a bit of messing about, but once you understand it and practice it a couple of times, it's pretty simple.

If you want I can sketch some of these idea's out.

Roger that. I get the 90 degree deal and proper reeve. Also understand friction loss.

Have not fully thought through the cascade deal. Looked at a few diagrams and I guess my high school physics class is failing me a little bit. Can't seem to remember why it helps.

Looks to me like it's same deal as fine tune on a boat, but that was fine tune with main cleated. Been long time since I raced a boat.

Anyway... Id be curious to see a diagram. Money not super important. Be nice to have something light and low profile to drag out of water.

Kevin Dill had good point... Might
Really should bring some type of anchors asv well. Thinking about that almost has me invlined to say Eff it. my thought was to bring the pulleu system and shoot only if nature provided a good anchor. but now I'm thinking if you're going to go half way, bringing the entire system. So much to consider.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

Well, that would darn sure do the trick. A lot of weight and bulk, though. I'm looking at 4" blocks at 9.5 oz total (working load 1,455... breaking at approx 3,000) and 200 feet of line (2,400#) for under 1.5 pounds. of weight. Pricey, but...

Also usually you can cut poles in moose country and move a bull by building a pole flip flop winch:
pole flip-flop setup

I hunt wetlands and lakes so my problem is mostly getting enough long line to winch from trees on the shore.

 

[Panhandler80]

Flip flop winch looks like a lot of great theory to me.

I get it, though. Maybe super light weight blocks and long line is the ticket THEN some anchors.

Kevin Dill - recommendations on anchors that will grab?

 

[Wrench]

Look on the bright side too....if you take some time it'll bloat and you can float it in.

 

[Kevin Dill]

On anchors:

I gave this a lot of thought and figured that I needed something lightweight, strong and workable for one guy. Lots of possibilities. I settled on bringing 4 of the Kifaru SST pins which I knew I could drive into most soil types where I moose hunt. I know these work because I've actually used them to pull a moose.

I killed a bull on a solo hunt, and he died right on the edge of a deep trench. I needed to pull him away from that trench in order to do a normal butchering job. Here's how I arranged the anchors:

Spreading out multiple anchors is key to having them hold and share the load. One would bend or pull out easily. There's nothing magical about the SST pins, and a guy could likely use a 3 sections of aluminum conduit of a larger diameter.

Whatever I bring in terms of pulleys, biners and other devices all go into a rather small zip pouch or bag. My rope stays coiled and ready in its own bag.

 

[Panhandler80]

On anchors:

I gave this a lot of thought and figured that I needed something lightweight, strong and workable for one guy. Lots of possibilities. I settled on bringing 4 of the Kifaru SST pins which I knew I could drive into most soil types where I moose hunt. I know these work because I've actually used them to pull a moose.

I killed a bull on a solo hunt, and he died right on the edge of a deep trench. I needed to pull him away from that trench in order to do a normal butchering job. Here's how I arranged the anchors:

Spreading out multiple anchors is key to having them hold and share the load. One would bend or pull out easily. There's nothing magical about the SST pins, and a guy could likely use a 3 sections of aluminum conduit of a larger diameter.

Whatever I bring in terms of pulleys, biners and other devices all go into a rather small zip pouch or bag. My rope stays coiled and ready in its own bag.

Cool deal.

You dragged bull to level ground?

What's total weight of your system and would you mind shooting me make and model of blocks?

 

[MWH]

The Nifty Lift | Block & Tackle Rope Pulley System for Sale – Block & Tackle Rope Pulley System – Work Smart Not Hard!

nifty-lift.com

I was starting to look for similar lightweight options as well and found this small block and tackle while searching YouTube and one person had lifted over 1,500 pounds with one.

 

[Buck2747]

I built a system similar to Kevin’s last summer with the blue water pulleys and i used 550 para for now. I like it, light weight compact and easy to assemble. I have not field tested it yet but have drug a few items around the yard playing with it.

 

[hodgeman]

Once you have to drag a bull out of the water, you'll not want to do that ever again.

On one such adventure we used an Argo to pull the pull out of the water. The amount of force we used was simply incredible. I doubt you can carry anything that will exert that much force with enough rope to reach anything solid enough to anchor to.

The second, the water was deep enough that we waited a couple of hours and floated it to shore. We still had to butcher it in knee deep swamp at the edge of the lake.

Other folks pulled the trigger on both of those, neither will do it again.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Trust me on ONE thing: The very best advice I can offer is to practice with your rig. Try to imagine different scenarios and rigging possibilities. Pulling a moose will probably involve mainly linear rigging and pulling. You may be required to pull a moose a few to several feet, and then shorten up your rigging....only to repeat until finished. If you're lucky you'll have enough rope, and a short enough distance, that you can accomplish the pull in one setup. I recommend a locking pulley (easiest) or a prussic loop (cheapest) to hold the load between pulls while you rest.

When using drive-in ground anchors it's important to put the rope at the very bottom of the anchors...on the ground....and be sure it stays there while pulling. If the rope slides up the anchors it will gain leverage and either bend them or pull them out of the ground.