Probably overkill, but... what about this pulley system for drop hunt?

[Kevin Dill]

This bull died in the edge of a shallow slough. I butchered him in knee-deep water. I didn't have a pulling rig, or I could have tugged him out the 30' or so to dry ground. Lesson.

 

[AKDoc]

Below are a couple pictures of the z-drag (3:1) system that I put together (just in case) for our moose fly-in drop-hunts that we do every year. The system you see here weighs exactly 4.0lbs, which is heavy if you’re counting ounces, but way lighter than a rope come-along!. I’m sure there are some weight cutting alternatives that can be substituted for choices I made when assembling my z-drag system. The cordage you see is 8mm…don’t remember the exact length I purchased, nor do I recall the exact dimensions of the webbing…sorry. The Prusik knot cordage is 5mm.

I've never had to use it until last year, and I can honestly say that it worked extremely well. Due to my error, I had a bull run into the lake after being shot, swim out from shore…and die. BTW, I learned something new this year…moose immediately float. My hunting partner and I are in our sixties, and we got it done by ourselves all in one day, which included getting half the meat hanging without any of it ever getting wet…honestly! I also always have my PR-49HD with us on the lake drop-hunts, as well as a few NRS straps that also came in handy. Getting the floating bull to shore was the easiest part of the entire process, but getting him out of the lake and onto shore was of course the hardest. We also got him at least 15 feet from the shore line onto good dry ground.

We were very fortunate to have a lone mature spruce tree on the ridge that ringed the lake to anchor with the webbing, so I floated him to that location, and with the webbing and NRS straps there was just enough cordage to make it to the bull. One other thing that turned out to our advantage, the 8mm cord that I bought was supposed to be static, but in reality it had some dynamic tension to it. Together we would pull until the friction/drag (dragging the moose over the ground) halted movement of the load with the 3:1 pull. The Prusik knots did their job, keeping the line tight with full dynamic tension. We then would walk down to the bull and lift the NRS straps that secured the bull to the cordage. The lift reduced ground friction/drag, and the loaded tension in the z-drag pulled the bull over the ground as we reduced friction by lifting the straps. I felt like Hercules the first time that I lifted the straps and that bull moved a couple feet! We just kept repeating that process multiple times until he was laying on good dry ground.

I wish I had taken some pictures of what we did, but honestly taking a picture was the absolute last thing on my mind because we busted our asses and worked continuously until last light. BTW, you can also make a 6:1 z-drag system by adding a couple more components, although we did just fine with 3:1.

The four pounds of our system was worth it’s weight in titanium that day!

 

[tdot]

I'm on the road right now, so this is literally on the back of an envelope.

This is what's referred to as a compound system. It uses the same number of sheaves as a 6:1 pulley, yet the net result is a 20:1 reduction.

As Kevin pointed out, multiple anchors are the key. With a system like this you can place stakes like Kevin used (those are a great idea), smaller trees, deadman anchors (what I've used), etc.


Knot #1 and #2 are either prussic knots, klemheist or mechanical rope grabbers.

This style of a system likely has to be reset several times thru a pull, unless you have alot of rope, and is probably it's biggest negative.

It's nice cuz no 1 piece of equipment is exposed to a huge load, so the equipment can be sized accordingly.

The double pulley with becket instead of being attached directly to a load can instead be attached thru another knot to a length of line that is led directly to the animal. So you could build this series of blocks to have 20' of travel, (which would require 140' of line) yet attached to a 100' length of line for a total reach of 120'.

This all sounds alot more complicated then it is. High angle rescue, riggers, etc all use these sorts of systems. They usually have much heavier equipment and a bunch of safety's built into their systems. But if you search on YouTube you'll see a ton of examples and pretty thorough explanations.

I've built and used the 1st system and another cascade with 5 single blocks, which yields a 24:1. (2nd pic).

This seems like alot of line, but I have various lengths that I keep with me anyways to hang food, game bags, etc. So it all does double duty.

Sorry for the chicken scratch, hopefully it's all legible. Let me know if you have any questions.

Roger that. I get the 90 degree deal and proper reeve. Also understand friction loss.

Have not fully thought through the cascade deal. Looked at a few diagrams and I guess my high school physics class is failing me a little bit. Can't seem to remember why it helps.

Looks to me like it's same deal as fine tune on a boat, but that was fine tune with main cleated. Been long time since I raced a boat.

Anyway... Id be curious to see a diagram. Money not super important. Be nice to have something light and low profile to drag out of water.

Kevin Dill had good point... Might
Really should bring some type of anchors asv well. Thinking about that almost has me invlined to say Eff it. my thought was to bring the pulleu system and shoot only if nature provided a good anchor. but now I'm thinking if you're going to go half way, bringing the entire system. So much to consider.

 

[tdot]

This bull died in the edge of a shallow slough. I butchered him in knee-deep water. I didn't have a pulling rig, or I could have tugged him out the 30' or so to dry ground. Lesson.

Nice bull! How far was the shot?

 

[tdot]

I built the 2nd system for my brother to use (the one with 5 single pulleys).

Design that he asked for was something to drag 1250lb animal, and allow for 750lb of friction (this was a guess, not sure how to calculate it)

We tested it by dragging a couple 55gallon steel drums full of water, up a slight incline, thru tall grass and brush (approx 1100lbs of weight). It was easy and could be pulled hand over hand only using arm strength.

Total system weight was approx 1.5lbs with enough line to reach out 120', it had a built in safety factor of 2.0, so could conceivably lift 2500lbs straight up in the air, if you wanted to.

I can put together a parts list if you want. But itll be tomorrow when I'm home. I can't take photos as all the various parts are disassembled and in storage.

 

[outdoorsbound]

I can put together a parts list if you want. But itll be tomorrow when I'm home. I can't take photos as all the various parts are disassembled and in storage.
[/QUOTE]

Am very curious about this. Have been exploring something like this for deer, albeit on a smaller scale. Any further info / explanation you can offer would be highly appreciated. You've got me re-thinking my plan.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Nice bull! How far was the shot?

6 yards.

 

[Wrench]

One of the best things a hunter can do is study rigging. I have spent my life using unique rig points to move loads....and it's application in the field is endless.

Study knots! I've been a nccco crane operator for over 10 years and I still reference an app on my phone called grogs knots. It's not every day that you tie a diamond hitch or an alpine butterfly, but it's nice to have a reference to keep from needing a knife to get your knot out...lol.

A few pulleys and the understanding on how and where to use them can be priceless.

One of the examples we use in rigging class is to take 3 men and 1 10' rope with a single pulley and place one man on each end of the rope, the last man on the pulley.

If the men stand close to each other as to keep the rope parallel, the single man can't budge them, if the men stand 10' apart to keep the rope stretched, the man on the pulley can force the two on the rope to move with just a single finger pulling.

Understanding rigging, anchors, knots, frictional losses, mechanical advantages, field applications (flop winch, etc) and how to use them together will make your back happy.

 

[Wrench]

One last thing to consider is rope stretch. Rope stretch can be dangerous. It's worth keeping some dyneema type rope for your rigging. It's nice to relax tension and not have 10 feet of stretch to give you a rope burn....or worse lose a finger.

 

[Panhandler80]

On anchors:

I gave this a lot of thought and figured that I needed something lightweight, strong and workable for one guy. Lots of possibilities. I settled on bringing 4 of the Kifaru SST pins which I knew I could drive into most soil types where I moose hunt. I know these work because I've actually used them to pull a moose.

I killed a bull on a solo hunt, and he died right on the edge of a deep trench. I needed to pull him away from that trench in order to do a normal butchering job. Here's how I arranged the anchors:

Spreading out multiple anchors is key to having them hold and share the load. One would bend or pull out easily. There's nothing magical about the SST pins, and a guy could likely use a 3 sections of aluminum conduit of a larger diameter.

Whatever I bring in terms of pulleys, biners and other devices all go into a rather small zip pouch or bag. My rope stays coiled and ready in its own bag.

Cool deal.

You dragged bull to level ground?

What's total weight of your system and would you mind shooting me make and model of blocks?

I'm on the road right now, so this is literally on the back of an envelope.

This is what's referred to as a compound system. It uses the same number of sheaves as a 6:1 pulley, yet the net result is a 20:1 reduction.

As Kevin pointed out, multiple anchors are the key. With a system like this you can place stakes like Kevin used (those are a great idea), smaller trees, deadman anchors (what I've used), etc.


Knot #1 and #2 are either prussic knots, klemheist or mechanical rope grabbers.

This style of a system likely has to be reset several times thru a pull, unless you have alot of rope, and is probably it's biggest negative.

It's nice cuz no 1 piece of equipment is exposed to a huge load, so the equipment can be sized accordingly.

The double pulley with becket instead of being attached directly to a load can instead be attached thru another knot to a length of line that is led directly to the animal. So you could build this series of blocks to have 20' of travel, (which would require 140' of line) yet attached to a 100' length of line for a total reach of 120'.

This all sounds alot more complicated then it is. High angle rescue, riggers, etc all use these sorts of systems. They usually have much heavier equipment and a bunch of safety's built into their systems. But if you search on YouTube you'll see a ton of examples and pretty thorough explanations.

I've built and used the 1st system and another cascade with 5 single blocks, which yields a 24:1. (2nd pic).

This seems like alot of line, but I have various lengths that I keep with me anyways to hang food, game bags, etc. So it all does double duty.

Sorry for the chicken scratch, hopefully it's all legible. Let me know if you have any questions.

Wow. Thanks for the sketch. Not sure I fully get the second one, but I think the one below makes sense.

Black numbers 1, 2 and 3 denote individual sections of line that would initially terminate (blue points) as close to prussic knot as possible, right???

 

[Panhandler80]

I built the 2nd system for my brother to use (the one with 5 single pulleys).

Design that he asked for was something to drag 1250lb animal, and allow for 750lb of friction (this was a guess, not sure how to calculate it)

We tested it by dragging a couple 55gallon steel drums full of water, up a slight incline, thru tall grass and brush (approx 1100lbs of weight). It was easy and could be pulled hand over hand only using arm strength.

Total system weight was approx 1.5lbs with enough line to reach out 120', it had a built in safety factor of 2.0, so could conceivably lift 2500lbs straight up in the air, if you wanted to.

I can put together a parts list if you want. But itll be tomorrow when I'm home. I can't take photos as all the various parts are disassembled and in storage.

That would be awesome. Thanks!

 

[Kevin Dill]

Panhandle: My pulling gear is all stowed and unavailable to picture or list.

 

[Beendare]

I've used a quad pulley system to move a 700# animal before....they work.

I've used earth anchors multiple times...mostly to unstick trucks. Best practice with multiple small anchors is to run them in a straight line....each drawing from the anchor behind it with no sideways pressure.

....

 

[tdot]

Cool deal.

You dragged bull to level ground?

What's total weight of your system and would you mind shooting me make and model of blocks?


Wow. Thanks for the sketch. Not sure I fully get the second one, but I think the one below makes sense.

Black numbers 1, 2 and 3 denote individual sections of line that would initially terminate (blue points) as close to prussic knot as possible, right???

You are correct. Each set of blocks is a separate system. But instead of a human pulling on the tail of each pulley system, you attach the next system via the prussic. This is what makes it a compound system.

In the 2nd drawing, again, think of each set or individual pulley as it's own system. Then all you are doing is connecting them via a prussik.

Since they are individual systems you have the ability to mix and match them or lay them out in different ways to suit the situation.

As @Wrench pointed out, all of this line has to be dyneema. I wouldn't build something like this with poly or nylon rope as you could literally collapse one complete set of blocks, just removing stretch, and it might not even move the animal, but the whole system would be loaded with thousands of pound of energy.... think compound bow.

The one exception is the loops that are used for either the prussik or Kleinhorst knot. I made these out of a technora/poly blend cover. More heat resistant and with higher friction then dyneema, yet still stronger then straight Poly.

I couldn't find my excel parts list, but I'll go from memory, hopefully wont miss anything. This is for the 2nd system. Again, let me know if you have any questions. I also had this laying around from my sailboat, they are pricey to buy just for this project, but you can replicate it with more readily available parts.

3:1 pulley

2x Karver KB8 pulley (1200kg break load)
1x 3mm Technora loops @0.5m each (for prussik to 2:1 pulley system)
1x 5mm technora loop @ 1m (for prussik to main working line leading to animal)
2x 5mm dyneema loops @1m each (to anchor pulleys)
15m of 4mm dyneema line with a 4" eye splice on one end




2:1 pulleys

1x Karver KB6 pulley (600kg break, I believe)
7m of 4mm Dyneema line with a 4" eye splice
Same loops as above.


The pulleys are the most expensive and heaviest portion of the system. There are other, vastly stronger and cheaper/lighter options, but they are more inefficient.

 

[Panhandler80]

You are correct. Each set of blocks is a separate system. But instead of a human pulling on the tail of each pulley system, you attach the next system via the prussic. This is what makes it a compound system.

In the 2nd drawing, again, think of each set or individual pulley as it's own system. Then all you are doing is connecting them via a prussik.

Since they are individual systems you have the ability to mix and match them or lay them out in different ways to suit the situation.

As @Wrench pointed out, all of this line has to be dyneema. I wouldn't build something like this with poly or nylon rope as you could literally collapse one complete set of blocks, just removing stretch, and it might not even move the animal, but the whole system would be loaded with thousands of pound of energy.... think compound bow.

The one exception is the loops that are used for either the prussik or Kleinhorst knot. I made these out of a technora/poly blend cover. More heat resistant and with higher friction then dyneema, yet still stronger then straight Poly.

I couldn't find my excel parts list, but I'll go from memory, hopefully wont miss anything. This is for the 2nd system. Again, let me know if you have any questions. I also had this laying around from my sailboat, they are pricey to buy just for this project, but you can replicate it with more readily available parts.

3:1 pulley

2x Karver KB8 pulley (1200kg break load)
1x 3mm Technora loops @0.5m each (for prussik to 2:1 pulley system)
1x 5mm technora loop @ 1m (for prussik to main working line leading to animal)
2x 5mm dyneema loops @1m each (to anchor pulleys)
15m of 4mm dyneema line with a 4" eye splice on one end




2:1 pulleys

1x Karver KB6 pulley (600kg break, I believe)
7m of 4mm Dyneema line with a 4" eye splice
Same loops as above.


The pulleys are the most expensive and heaviest portion of the system. There are other, vastly stronger and cheaper/lighter options, but they are more inefficient.

Thanks!

Pretty sure I saw that followed. Your just using a 2:1 to pull
another 2:1, which is putting your X:X block and tackle

Not sure why this seems do foreign.

Thanks on parts list too! Obviously we will have food shelter water weapon communication clothing, etc.... Just seems to me like something along these lines should make the imperative list.

 

[tdot]

Thanks!

Pretty sure I saw that followed. Your just using a 2:1 to pull
another 2:1, which is putting your X:X block and tackle

Not sure why this seems do foreign.

Thanks on parts list too! Obviously we will have food shelter water weapon communication clothing, etc.... Just seems to me like something along these lines should make the imperative list.

Exactly. A 2:1, pulling on a 2:1 is equivalent to a 4:1.

 

[tdot]

I can put together a parts list if you want. But itll be tomorrow when I'm home. I can't take photos as all the various parts are disassembled and in storage.

Am very curious about this. Have been exploring something like this for deer, albeit on a smaller scale. Any further info / explanation you can offer would be highly appreciated. You've got me re-thinking my plan.
[/QUOTE]

This is the system I keep in my kill kit.

The dyneema 2mm line is something I keep with me always, I use it instead of paracord. Carabiners have lots of multiple uses and I have spare lengths of shorter dyneema that I use for tent, tarps, lashings, etc. So almost zero extra weight. But if I put everything in the photo on a scale it's less then 100grams.

I've lifted a 250lb mule deer into the air with it, hung it there, gutted it, skinned it and butchered all while standing up. It was a nice change. And more importantly I can look around easier and keep an eye open for Grizzlies as it's getting a bit stupid around some parts of BC now that they've closed the Grizz hunt.

This system I built in the field, so it uses knots instead of splices. It is a 4:1 system, but loses about 30% of its efficiency to friction.

The first pic is the system layout.


The second pic shows the black lashing ring that is used to redirect the tail that is pulled on. This helps to keep a relatively inefficient system a little more efficient the orange dyneema normally is threaded thru the center of the ring, not over the top. You could just as easily have another wrap on the top carabiner and omit the ring.

If you build something like this, just always ensure that the rope is always traveling in the same direction as it passes over the carabiner.

Hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if it doesnt.

 

[Voyageur]

Searching for a simple lightweight system if needed to move a moose solo. I'm not at all literate with rigging and its terms so some of what is discussed in this thread is hard for me to understand. Is a 4:1 mechanical advantage enough?
Anyone have any other ideas to add to what has already been discussed?

 

[Voyageur]

The Nifty Lift | Block & Tackle Rope Pulley System for Sale – Block & Tackle Rope Pulley System – Work Smart Not Hard!

nifty-lift.com

I was starting to look for similar lightweight options as well and found this small block and tackle while searching YouTube and one person had lifted over 1,500 pounds with one.

Curious if there are any comments on how this system would work. Seems simple and ready made but does it offer enough advantage for solo work?

 

[AKDoc]

Searching for a simple lightweight system if needed to move a moose solo. I'm not at all literate with rigging and its terms so some of what is discussed in this thread is hard for me to understand. Is a 4:1 mechanical advantage enough?
Anyone have any other ideas to add to what has already been discussed?

Look at what I shared in #22 above...

I really could have accomplished moving that bull by myself with that set-up. My friend was there, and he is a super great guy, but he really wasn't that helpful with the actual pulling. The z-drag set-up that I put together and used is 3:1, and with two more pulleys, two more carabiners, and one (or two) more Prusik knotted loop it can be 6:1.

If you haven't already done so, just do a little research on z-drags (and compound z-drags), and learn how to tie Prusiks. It's all very doable at a fairly reasonable weight...and probably even save you some money.