PSA: Horox Outfitters

Praxeus

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
150
I’m posting this review to give the community a little information for the greater good. I know it’s going to spur conversations about paying too much for a hunt or chastising me about not doing my research. I’m willing to take my lumps in order for the next hunter to not have the same fate.

My father and I booked a muzzleloader hunt with Horox outfitters (Josh Horrocks) for the week of Sept 30-Oct 4, 2019 for $21,000 per hunter. It’s 60,000 acres in a great unit in Utah, and those tags come with a hefty price tag. There were numerous issues with the hunt, but the biggest issue was the deception on the size of elk we were going to be hunting. My dad spoke to Epic outdoors and was told they have bulls 330-340 average up to 370, which Josh Horrocks confirmed on our first call. He told me numerous times that he had huge elk and that they get better every year. I specifically asked why his website states 285-340 with average 320 and he said it was old and he has much bigger bulls now. His exact words were “I’m going to show you the best elk hunting of your life”. He also told me on the drive up that he had a “couple of 350+ bulls lined up for us”. From the start I could tell something was off. For 3 days all of the bulls we glassed were 260-310 (2 hunters and 3 guides all working together). Maybe one was 320, but it was a stretch. There were many bulls on the property, but all little bulls with plenty of cows. I don’t expect to show up to a place and just shoot a 350+, but for that amount of money you should at least see something decent. Imagine my surprise when Mr. Horox decided to have a conversation with his team one night within earshot and I hear him say to his guides that they haven’t seen any 350 bulls ALL YEAR. I heard him talk about how worried he was that there weren’t any big elk or mule deer on the property and that he needed to “pull something out of a hat.”

For $21,000 you expect to see big elk. Not the small bulls we saw all week (260s-310s). In my opinion they have killed off all the mature bulls and he is still charging premium dollars for something that’s not there. When asking around I found that he books 16 gun hunters and 3-4 bow hunters every fall. Gun hunters all have around 100% success (but small) and bow hunters about 30%.

For that amount of money you also expect some basic amenities. I don’t expect to be fed expired food and leftovers for $21,000 (which I was). There are a host of other things I could nitpick over, but overall this was the most disappointing hunt my Dad or I have ever been on.

I reached out to Josh and told him the exact information I’m posting in this review. He simply stated (verbatim)-
“Was hoping you guys would have killed some bigger bulls we whacked a couple pigs after you left wish you guys would of held out for something bigger for sure” No apology, no explanation, simply dismissive.

I asked for pictures of these “pigs” and they were the same size bulls we had seen all week (probably a 300 and a 310). My Dad and I actually recognized both of them as bulls we had passed up.

After doing some research upon returning home, I realize this is not the first time something like this has happened with Horox outfitters. Hindsight is 20/20 and although my money and elk season is lost, I hope this review will save someone else the heartache. I don’t like to post a review like this, but I don’t want this to happen to another hunter. I also feel like we need to protect the integrity of the sport.

Feel free to PM me for all of our scouting pictures, pictures of what we killed, and what Josh Horror considers a “pig” elk for $21,000.



Im not being critical....but, I cannot imagine paying that kind of money before doing my due diligence. That would include, outfitter reviews from previous hunters and talking to every single reference both good and bad. Lastly...and again, Im not trying to sound critical....but you could have done WAY better even on public land. of course by now, you already know that. An expensive lesson
 

Fatcamp

WKR
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May 31, 2017
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Sodak
People with Igloos say the same thing about people with Yetis. There are cheaper and more expensive alternatives for everything in life that costs money. And that's why the OP is upset, because he spent that money and expected a top shelf opportunity based on the expectations set by the seller.

Wife likes to watch "Below Deck" on Bravo channel. It's about boats that take groups of 6 or less people around the Mediterranean partying for 4 days. The cost is around $250,000 US for the 4 day trip, and then they tip the crew with an envelope of cash around $30,000 US.

There are people I guarantee you, not me, on Rokslide who could pay for something like that and it wouldn't affect their bottom line more than me buying a happy meal at McDonalds.

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I've been a tile setter for 15 years. There is no limit to the stupid stuff people will waste money on, IMO.

The guy is lucky to have time with his father. If he needs to throw 50k at the deal to feel like he is getting a good experience I certainly won't judge.
 

SWOHTR

WKR
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Aug 1, 2016
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Saw your post on bowsite, thanks for the information and I’m not going to judge you on how you spend your money. Thanks for helping others not fall into that trap.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
889
Location
Wyoming
Sounds like a bad experience. Reviews like this will help others not fall into that trap. I'm not opposed to outfitting...I think it can be a great way to enjoy a true hunting experience.

But, I don't mean to be a jerk, but $21k on a guided hunt to me feels like everything I wish hunting wasn't. I bust my ass pretty much every day in the mountains around here and have had some wonderful experiences this season, but no bull (so far...still another 18 days fingers crossed). Heck, I would have shot this funny little spike that kept showing up had he given me a shot during the part of the season when spikes are legal. So I wouldn't say my season was "a lose" even if I don't shoot anything.

I guess everyone has their own criteria, and I shouldn't force mine onto others...but I will anyway :) For me hunting is, in order, 1) meat, 2) fun/experiences, 3) trophy. Once you start mixing those up (again, this is me forcing my hunting ethic on the rest of you) I think it really hurts the perception of hunters to the outside world, the fair chase of hunting, and the general spirit of why we hunt big game and try to kill these amazing animals in the first place.

I guess the point is perspective. If I'd paid $21K for ANYTHING, I would have researched the crap out of it, called the outfitter with questions until he was annoyed, and had 10 options lined up. And if I shoot ANY elk before October 31st (even if it scores -35) I will be through the moon because I get the meat, I had the experiences, and the euro-mount trophy can always hang in the bathroom and remind me of the awesome season I've had every time I have to pee.

I shot an antelope a couple weeks ago that would probably score in the 20s! Tiny little horns. But I did it with my best friend for the last 25 years, and that experience makes this one of the coolest antelope I will ever shoot (and the "trophy" is going to hang in the basement bathroom). Meat (check), fun/experience (check), tropy (umm, I guess check?).
 
Joined
May 10, 2017
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2,160
If I spent $20,000, I would have researched...

Come on, fellas. If you read the thread, the PM is a surgeon (a smart professional) and seemed to research pretty thoroughly. At some point you have to rely on the outfitter to some extent. You aren’t there doing the hunt until you do the hunt. And the outfitter appeared to misrepresent and tuck tail. A POS like many of the other Utah outfitters I’m aware of.

If a business starts letting go of their customer service for profits, the first few get burned and have to learn the hard way.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
889
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Wyoming
Also, sorry if this gets off topic, I just feel
If I spent $20,000, I would have researched...

Come on, fellas. If you read the thread, the PM is a surgeon (a smart professional) and seemed to research pretty thoroughly. At some point you have to rely on the outfitter to some extent. You aren’t there doing the hunt until you do the hunt. And the outfitter appeared to misrepresent and tuck tail. A POS like many of the other Utah outfitters I’m aware of.

If a business starts letting go of their customer service for profits, the first few get burned and have to learn the hard way.

True. A handful of bad reviews can tank a business. And one that misrepresents and does a generally piss pour job will and should tank.
 

cardiac5

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
163
If I spent $20,000, I would have researched...

Come on, fellas. If you read the thread, the PM is a surgeon (a smart professional) and seemed to research pretty thoroughly. At some point you have to rely on the outfitter to some extent. You aren’t there doing the hunt until you do the hunt. And the outfitter appeared to misrepresent and tuck tail. A POS like many of the other Utah outfitters I’m aware of.

If a business starts letting go of their customer service for profits, the first few get burned and have to learn the hard way.
Agreed. Surgery isn't necessarily an easy schedule/life depending on the specialty. Some have set schedules and some spend 60-80hrs a week in the hospitals and don't have time to plan as much so they use tools like epic. He went through a good hunt planner and expected more then he got so he's trying to warn people so that it doesn't keep happening. Also he said bucketlist which a lot of people go all out on bucketlist items. I know i'd spend a lot on my dad to get on an elk. If you made 25-50k or more a month you wouldn't worry about 21k. But being avg income is about 60k everyone is freaking out. If you made 400k, 20k would be 5% of your income. If you made 60k a 3k hunt would be 5% of your income. I know a lot of doctors that fly to napa and spend 8k in 4 days 3-4x a year just on wine. Thank you for warning us.


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Z Barebow

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
281
How anyone spends their money is their business. It is my soap and I will shower as long as I want!

The high end outfitters cater to different clientele than myself. In turn, the clientele have different expectations than myself. Nothing wrong with that. Your post/unfortunate experience may help others.
 
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Doc Holliday

WKR
Classified Approved
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Jun 15, 2016
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2,616
Disappointing how many people on here as well as bowsite take this as an opportunity to put themselves on a pedestal. "I would never spend $21K to....." Who gives a damn what you would spend your money on.....we don't care if you can DIY everything in North America. Good for you. Some people have more time than money, and others have more money than time. Whichever group you are in is a result of the life decisions you have made up until this point. Deriding someone in the other bucket makes you look ignorant, and jealous.

An expectation was set/sold to the client for a price. According to the OP, the seller admitted that the expectations set were based on lies. So he is warning people.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
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Wyoming
Disappointing how many people on here as well as bowsite take this as an opportunity to put themselves on a pedestal. "I would never spend $21K to....." Who gives a damn what you would spend your money on.....we don't care if you can DIY everything in North America. Good for you. Some people have more time than money, and others have more money than time. Whichever group you are in is a result of the life decisions you have made up until this point. Deriding someone in the other bucket makes you look ignorant, and jealous.

An expectation was set/sold to the client for a price. According to the OP, the seller admitted that the expectations set were based on lies. So he is warning people.

Great point, and well said. Who cares how anyone else spends their money. My only gripe is when antler size becomes the measure of a good hunt. It really makes the trophy out to be the most important thing. I get the expectations and misleading...that sucks.
 
OP
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BabaYaga

FNG
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
10
I appreciate everyones responses and value each opinion. My dad and I have both killed some nice bulls in the past (guided and DIY) and don't mind doing DIY hunts if we have the chance. However, at this stage in life I live in Texas and he lives in Missouri. Neither of us can take off more than a week at a time due to my busy practice and he runs a business. We take the chance every year to get together on a father/son elk hunt to make memories and scratch the itch to hunt some western big game.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think anyone on here would rather be stalking a 350+ bull vs. a raghorn. If I wanted large antlers I can kill a 500" bull only hours from my house for less money. In my opinion, the cost of the hunt is to put ourselves in the areas that produce big bulls. (except for this year) I have friends that spend way more money on things I see as frivolous, but it's their money and I don't judge them. What I do know is that the excitement of killing a big bull with my Dad is worth every penny.
 

Rich M

WKR
Joined
Jun 14, 2017
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Orlando
Very nice bull. Fences were a little lower on this place.

You just plain sound bitter. To immediately imply fences cause someone got a nice bull. Need to relax.

The money doesn't seem to be the point, you wanted a monster bull and didn't get what you thought you were buying. It was a great trip with dad - We don't get enough of those.
 

cnelk

WKR
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Mar 1, 2012
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Colorado
I know of 2 major forums this has been posted on.
Im sure the info [damage] intended to do has been done.
 

5MilesBack

"DADDY"
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Feb 27, 2012
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Colorado Springs
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think anyone on here would rather be stalking a 350+ bull vs. a raghorn. If I wanted large antlers I can kill a 500" bull only hours from my house for less money. In my opinion, the cost of the hunt is to put ourselves in the areas that produce big bulls.

Ok, so you don't "want" large antlers........you just want to be hunting an area that "historically" produces big bulls. Lots of areas like that around the West. And for me, yes......there's nothing like chasing big bulls during the rut. I bow hunted a unit this year (for $54.75) that historically has been the best elk hunting I've experienced with plenty of big bulls. I saw elk almost every day, but nothing like in past years, and nothing like the past for the number of bigger bulls. I could have killed a few different bulls but I always hold out for one of those bigger ones in there. I only saw two of those the entire season and got close on both a couple times but no shots. It was a really bad season compared to past years in there, and even only spending $54.75 for the tag and opportunity I was disappointed. If I'd spent $21k on it, I'd still be puking. Actually, one morning I was puking my guts out even before the hike in.

The bottom line is........all of those places have good and bad years. Weather, elk movement, antler growth, pressure........they all contribute to good and bad years.......even on private ground. Sounds like the "big bulls" just didn't make it onto that ranch this year, or that week. That happens. I have a buddy that waited 15 years to draw a CO unit 2 archery tag. He scouts it every year and sees 380 class bulls every year. The year he drew it, he couldn't find a bull over 350. Murphy's Law, bad luck, just elk hunting........plenty of reasons why. Ya, that's frustrating, but so is elk hunting at times.

But beyond the hunting aspect of it, for $21k I would have expected a 3 River's Ranch lodging experience with fine dining and the spa treatments every day. That part of your experience I absolutely would be upset about.

Edit: After looking over the website, I would have taken the written information as their "word" (generally take 285" to 340".......average 325"). A lot of outfitters post numbers like that. For just the outfitting/guide aspect of it I would expect to pay around $7500 for a 1 on 1 hunt. But in this case, you probably also had to buy landowner tags for that hunt. The CO LO Tags for that area across the border in NW CO go for around $15k and up. So add those together and you're pretty close to what you paid. Take the LO tag out of the equation and it's priced pretty fairly for what you get.
 
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