Puffy Comparison: Tear It Up!

[Jaden Bales]

On the filson the cotton mole skin is only on the high wear area, the shoulders and face. Its tag states the over lay is 50/50, nylon to cotton. The remainder of the shell is all nylon.

Nice! So it sounds kind of like a bombproof cotton material in high wear areas, but then not so much elsewhere. Kind of like the Kifaru...ish.

 

[fngTony]

What I don’t know how to calculate is the fill power of a synthetic down blend. If it’s 6oz of 750fp and 4oz of synthetic what is the overall fill power? Trouble is not many synthetics list their fp and from what I researched the highest is arguably 600 fp. It’s been over two decades since I took a math class so please excuse my ignorance. Let’s assume the overall is 700 fp so a total of 10oz of 700fp. Now how much warmer is that than using 7oz of 850fp?

My gut tells me that it’s the overall construction, fp and quantity. If you could make a controlled test using the exact same construction and materials I doubt the difference would be that drastic.

 

[prm]

I want warm enough that I don't have to double up my puffy layers like I did this winter when it was 5 degrees with -15 wind chill. Lol.

In that case you probably want a Chamberlain, or a very high end mountaineering jacket.

I used a Kifaru LPP and was comfortable in conditions you described, but it was over an Aerowool base, Peleton 240, and an Arc’teryx Atom LT. That layering system works great for me. Doesn’t feel too puffy.

 

[Jaden Bales]

What I don’t know how to calculate is the fill power of a synthetic down blend. If it’s 6oz of 750fp and 4oz of synthetic what is the overall fill power? Trouble is not many synthetics list their fp and from what I researched the highest is arguably 600 fp. It’s been over two decades since I took a math class so please excuse my ignorance. Let’s assume the overall is 700 fp so a total of 10oz of 700fp. Now how much warmer is that than using 7oz of 850fp?

My gut tells me that it’s the overall construction, fp and quantity. If you could make a controlled test using the exact same construction and materials I doubt the difference would be that drastic.

Yeah man, you really can't compare apples to apples when the synthetic fabrics are measured in grams/meter^2.

Someone with more experience comparing these things might have a better way of doing it, but I often times look at the full picture of what the piece was intended to do and compare it to other pieces I have experience with to try and make a determination of "does this fit in x or y category."

In my opinion, it's very rare you'll be able to tell the difference of 10% warmth when the amount of breeze or your physical activity level can make a body temperature change greater than that difference.

 

[Jaden Bales]

In that case you probably want a Chamberlain, or a very high end mountaineering jacket.

I used a Kifaru LPP and was comfortable in conditions you described, but it was over an Aerowool base, Peleton 240, and an Arc’teryx Atom LT. That layering system works great for me. Doesn’t feel too puffy.

Awesome man! That's really good to know. I would have made the wrong purchase because that's the same layering system I have minus the LPP.

I basically want to cut out the Atom LT, because it's not warm enough on it's own for glassing, but if I'm pulling a 1000 ft hill, I overheat in it even in those conditions.

 

[prm]

The Kelvin Active would be a step down in warmth from the Atom and it’s designed to move moisture. You could then add an Uber puffy for glassing. Going from Kelvin Active then adding the Chamberlain to glass would be a very nice combo.

 

[ozyclint]

So the Kifaru is still on that list primarily because I still really like it for the 500D Cordura, not because it's the warmest jacket. It's just hard to get super good warmth to weight with synthetics.

Luckily, cold wet conditions means you aren't talking single and negative digits because if it's that cold you're not getting wet unless the snow melts...which can happen inside your jacket but not really outside with a good DWR coating.
QUOTE]

are you talking Fahrenheit? In NZ it can rain for days then get -10°C with wet clammy gear quite often.

 

[Jaden Bales]

I'm talking Fahrenheit. Specifically here in the Rocky Mountains of the US where the precipitation and humidity are lower overall.

 

[cornfedkiller]

You aren't the first person to allude to the underwhelming performance of that jacket. Lol.

You have to take into account that Kuiu used to only have 1 "Super Down" jacket and pant, and it is basically what the Super Down Ultra is now. The current Ultra is lighter, but its because they changed the face fabric, but the fill is about the same. They also now have the Pro, which is different than the "Super Down".

 

[cornfedkiller]

What I don’t know how to calculate is the fill power of a synthetic down blend. If it’s 6oz of 750fp and 4oz of synthetic what is the overall fill power? Trouble is not many synthetics list their fp and from what I researched the highest is arguably 600 fp. It’s been over two decades since I took a math class so please excuse my ignorance. Let’s assume the overall is 700 fp so a total of 10oz of 700fp. Now how much warmer is that than using 7oz of 850fp?

My gut tells me that it’s the overall construction, fp and quantity. If you could make a controlled test using the exact same construction and materials I doubt the difference would be that drastic.

I've been told the best synthetic is about 50-60% the warmth of 850 down, so I know its a generalization, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume synthetic insulation to be about 500ish fill power.

And the math is really pretty easy - just multiply the two together - fill weight (not garment weight) times fill power and that gives you the number you are looking for. 10oz of 700 is 7,000. 7oz of 850 is 5,950. Then to get fancy, you then take the warmer number minus the colder number, then divide that by the colder number and multiply by 100 and that tells you the percentage the warmer jacket it. In your example, the 10oz is 17% warmer, but its going to be heavier by a factor of 3oz per meter (I think?) square of garment.

 

[fngTony]

Cost vs benefits. My main puffy is the Eddie Bauer downlight, only big con is it’s relatively heavy but I got mine at 50% off. Not sure I can justify spending double or more solely to cut 3-5 ounces. When it needs replaced it’ll be worth a look but something tells me it won’t be a hunting brand. The skre ptarmigan is the only one not uber expensive in the hunting realm.

Bells and whistles that don’t add to the main objective of a puffy, warmth. 95% of us need a Kia but the lot is full of Bentleys.

 

[5MilesBack]

I basically want to cut out the Atom LT, because it's not warm enough on it's own for glassing, but if I'm pulling a 1000 ft hill, I overheat in it even in those conditions.

I overheat wearing only a base layer pulling a 1000 foot hill. So I would never wear a puffy or coat while hiking hard, even in the teens. Base and fleece is about it.........until I stop.

The Super Down is what it is.........I don't think it was ever designed as a late season piece in cold temps. Like I said, for archery season through September it works fine......as do other lightweight down jackets. But for late season cold they are woefully inadequate, at least for me. I sold my Uncompahgre as well because I got cold in that thing while stationary even in temps in the 50's.

 

[Jaden Bales]

I overheat wearing only a base layer pulling a 1000 foot hill. So I would never wear a puffy or coat while hiking hard, even in the teens. Base and fleece is about it.........until I stop.

The Super Down is what it is.........I don't think it was ever designed as a late season piece in cold temps. Like I said, for archery season through September it works fine......as do other lightweight down jackets. But for late season cold they are woefully inadequate, at least for me. I sold my Uncompahgre as well because I got cold in that thing while stationary even in temps in the 50's.

Good info!

To address what you, Cornfedkiller, and others have said about the Kuiu piece, the Kuiu Super Down Pro jacket looks like a great piece if you wanna run a base layer, fleece, that puffy, and a good shell on top while you're hunting the alpine in fairly predictable September and early October in Wyoming high country kinds of temperatures.

To summarize, a guy would have to double up on puffy jackets with the Super Down Pro Jacket in severe cold. Is that a fair assessment?

 

[5MilesBack]

To summarize, a guy would have to double up on puffy jackets with the Super Down Pro Jacket in severe cold. Is that a fair assessment?

I've never even tried to double down puffy jackets of any kind. The down is pretty flat in those lightweight puffy's as it is. Doubling down would only compress the inside one even more so, negating its loft and insulation capabilities.

 

[Jaden Bales]

I've never even tried to double down puffy jackets of any kind. The down is pretty flat in those lightweight puffy's as it is. Doubling down would only compress the inside one even more so, negating its loft and insulation capabilities.

I doubled up this year and it works fine with the specific layering system I had. I posted a picture earlier in the thread.

That experience is actually what has spurred this whole thing on. I spent 10-15 different days in January-February looking at deer and elk on the winter range. What I did was hike in a base and a fleece layer, then add the Atom LT AND Cabelas Casper Range jacket with 650 fill down. Though I got warm, I looked like a Michelin man, my day pack was packed to the brim with puffy coats, and it was a pain in the ass to manage those layers with a bino harness and to shoot coyotes in those layers.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

I'm a big fan of my Arcteryx Thorium AR. Down fill in the body and arms and synthetic in the hood, arm pits and cuffs.

 

[Jaden Bales]

I'm a big fan of my Arcteryx Thorium AR. Down fill in the body and arms and synthetic in the hood, arm pits and cuffs.

Good rec! My girlfriend has the women's version and loves it.

 

[Hectocotylus]

I think people are talking past each other in terms of what works for each temperature. One guy still hunts, one guy hikes till he finds something, and another guy sits and glasses. All need different kinds of stuff. I’m a sit and glass guy and I am always cold. I don’t have a quality puffy so I’m tagging along to see what comes out of this thread. Chamberlain looks good but expensive. Maybe lost park parka would work though who knows.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[5MilesBack]

You know........I look at that chart and see $900 for a jacket and even $400 for a jacket........and personally, I think that's insane. I could afford to buy the $900 jacket, but I didn't get to this position by actually doing that. I'm pretty thrifty by nature, so I have no problem going down to the local thrift stores and buying coats and jackets for pennies on the dollar. If I want camo.......I can throw my $30 rain jacket over the bright blue down ski jacket. That's how I roll.

 

[Jaden Bales]

I think people are talking past each other in terms of what works for each temperature. One guy still hunts, one guy hikes till he finds something, and another guy sits and glasses. All need different kinds of stuff. I’m a sit and glass guy and I am always cold. I don’t have a quality puffy so I’m tagging along to see what comes out of this thread. Chamberlain looks good but expensive. Maybe lost park parka would work though who knows.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Totally! And the jacket I choose in Wyoming is going to be different than what I choose in Oregon than what I choose in Arizona.

That Chamberlain looks hard to beat for a serious workhorse insulation piece. From what it sounds like, you'd have to layer up pretty mightily under the LPP if you run cold and need it in the coldest temps (15 degrees and lower) but you wouldn't have to worry about durability as much!