Question about rifle balistics

-bowfreak-

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This is coming from a bowhunter so I'm pretty much a novice about rifles.

My question is....what would provide better performance a .243 or a 7mm-08 with reduced recoil loads? This would be for my middle school and high school daughters who are a little recoil sensitive. It would be used for deer sized animals or smaller.

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cmahoney

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How far do you think they will be shooting? My .243 still has 1000 pounds of energy at 350 yards with an 85 grain bullet. A 7-08 will carry more energy but recoil a little more in general.

Have you looked at the 6.5 Grendel Howa Mini action?


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Rich M

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Ask your daughters if it is the noise that bothers them.

A 243 has about 9 pounds recoil, 7mm-08 standard loads are around 15#. No idea on the reduced recoil. Ballistics are very similar.

Here's one for you.

If you are hunting and the deer are inside 100 yards - get a single shot 357 magnum rifle. 5# recoil, significantly quieter than 243 or 7mm-08. The 357 magnum is a pleasure to hunt with. I, my wife, and my stepson all use it. 11 out of 12 deer just fell over, the largest buck ran about 150 yards with no lungs and left a nice blood trail (I reload the ammo, so is a little hotter than factory).
 

mlgc20

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My 12 year old started hunting a couple of years ago. She started shooting a 308 with reduced recoil ammo. She has since moved to regular loads on her 308. She is now also shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor which has very little recoil. I would recommend looking at the 6.5CM.

But, to answer your question, the 243 will carry more energy at pretty much all ranges I believe.
 

Azone

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A .243 will do everything you want as long as the shot placement is accurate. I've watched my wife kill a few animals (blacktail, hogs and coyotes) with hers and except for the time she made a bad shot on a deer it's worked great. Keep the shots at reasonable distances and it will work just fine.
 

wildwilderness

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The fit of the rifle, the stock, pad, overall weight, adequate hearing protection, is probably more important than the difference in those calibers. Make sure you get the right rifle, then look at caliber available.

You could always put a suppressor on a rifle, but that's a lot more time and money....
 
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-bowfreak-

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The noise doesn't bother them and recoil is much less of an issue than it originally was. 6.5 is one I really have considered. I just thought that the -08 offered more diversity since reduced recoil loads are available.

I'm looking at an Axis II compact or Ruger American Compact. Shots are typically less than 100 yards but it is a possibility to get a 150 yard shot. My youngest has killed 2 with her .223 and both shots were 40-50 yards. That fun has been deadly, bit I'd prefer something with a little more bullet weight to insure exit holes.

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Cahunter805

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A 243win will be plenty for deer and very mild recoil even with full charge loads.
If you want this rifle to be used for larger game than deer/antelope the 7-08 might be a better choice but if it’s just deer the 243 would be a great choice.
 

Formidilosus

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The noise doesn't bother them and recoil is much less of an issue than it originally was. 6.5 is one I really have considered. I just thought that the -08 offered more diversity since reduced recoil loads are available.

I'm looking at an Axis II compact or Ruger American Compact. Shots are typically less than 100 yards but it is a possibility to get a 150 yard shot. My youngest has killed 2 with her .223 and both shots were 40-50 yards. That fun has been deadly, bit I'd prefer something with a little more bullet weight to insure exit holes.

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Recoil effects everyone. Every single dude shoots a 223 better than a 300 mag.

Change bullets. A 77gr Sierra Tipped Matchking in the 223 is NOT a 223 by performance. A good 223 with TMK’s is a murder machine, and having done it a couple hundred of times- there is no way I would use a neutered 7/08 over a full tilt good .224 bullet.

No one buys a V8, and then says- well since she’s 16, let me start ripping spark plugs out.
 
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-bowfreak-

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The .243 will work great for us I guess I'm just always looking for a shiny new penny.

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5MilesBack

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I bought a 6.5 CM a few years ago with a brake and that thing kicked harder even with the brake than my .270 does without a brake and with 85gr and 95gr Barnes bullets going 3500+fps. I sold the 6.5, and I love that .270.
 

EmperorMA

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I bought a 6.5 CM a few years ago with a brake and that thing kicked harder even with the brake than my .270 does without a brake and with 85gr and 95gr Barnes bullets going 3500+fps. I sold the 6.5, and I love that .270.
That has to be rifle design/weight. You cannot refute the laws of physics: a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting anything simply does not generate more recoil than a .270 Winchester. Period.

To the OP: The .243 Win shooting full-house 100 - 105gr bullets generates about 10 ft lbs of recoil in an 8 lb (all up) rifle. The 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 120 - 125gr bullets generates about 10.5 ft lbs of recoil. The Creedmoor only generates about 12 ft lbs with 140 - 143gr bullets, which offer a lot more than 100gr .243 bullets do in terms of performance on game. For comparison, the .270 Win with 150gr bullets (to get near the higher BC/SD of the 6.5 140-class bullets) generates 19.7 ft lbs of recoil.

Winchester XPR Compact in 6.5 Creedmoor shooting Winchester Deer Season XP 125gr Extreme Point bullets or 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tips or 120 TTSX might be the girls’ huckleberry. If they ever get an itch to hunt in the West, the 140 AccuBond, 142 ABLR and 143 ELD-X will take down any hooved game animal in North America while generating just 12 ft lbs of recoil.
 
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-bowfreak-

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I stopped at my buddies gun shop tonight and he had a 243 youth Axis II XP in Muddy Girl. He made me a great deal on it so I bought it. There is also a $30 factory rebate from Savage now too.

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desertcj

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.243 is very under rated. With the right bullet, there are several good choices....a .243 stomps mid size game. I haven't killed too much with mine though....a wild hog, an antelope and a few very unlucky rabbits.
 

Cahunter805

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.243 is very under rated. With the right bullet, there are several good choices....a .243 stomps mid size game. I haven't killed too much with mine though....a wild hog, an antelope and a few very unlucky rabbits.
With the right twist rate they are extremely lethal. A 105VLD is pretty devastating on game.
 

5MilesBack

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That has to be rifle design/weight. You cannot refute the laws of physics: a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting anything simply does not generate more recoil than a .270 Winchester. Period.
You would think so, but the 6.5 was a Ruger FTW Rifle at 1.5#'s heavier and even had a recoil pad. With the brake I was expecting .223 type of recoil......not even close. With the .270 and those 85 grainers, I can stay on target at the shot without losing it......and that's a lightweight Ruger American rifle.
 
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dla

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Recoil effects everyone. Every single dude shoots a 223 better than a 300 mag.
Well if recoil was all that mattered, you'd be right.

The .243 was the original kid's rifle back in the day. But cup & core bullets left a lot to be desired when hunting Elk. Bonded bullets today have really improved that cartridge IMO.
The real key to any "kid's" rifle is fit and there are a number of compact rifles available. The only problem I've seen is weight - they're too light for a new shooter. But there are tricks for that.
I reload, so I have no problem tailoring loads for a new shooter. But if you don't reload, then the 243 will be a bit easier than the 7mm-08 to find lightweight bullet loads to get started with.

I personally like the 7mm-08 better, as I like the heavier bullets. I don't think many 243's have a twist rate to stabilize anything "heavy" in 6mm.

I filled the hollow butt of a synthetic stock with shot to get the final weight of a 308 rifle up to 10.5lbs for a new shooter. That and loaded some 125gr @2600fps.
 

Formidilosus

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Well if recoil was all that mattered, you'd be right.

The .243 was the original kid's rifle back in the day. But cup & core bullets left a lot to be desired when hunting Elk.
When was the OP asking about elk?


It would be used for deer sized animals or smaller.



I filled the hollow butt of a synthetic stock with shot to get the final weight of a 308 rifle up to 10.5lbs for a new shooter. That and loaded some 125gr @2600fps.

I like when kids are starting to play tee-ball, to give them a bat that they can’t even pick up. Makes it way more fun.
 

dla

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When was the OP asking about elk?










I like when kids are starting to play tee-ball, to give them a bat that they can’t even pick up. Makes it way more fun.
The idea was to start them shooting with a rifle that had very little recoil. After they felt comfortable, remove the shot. After they were proficient with the reduced load (100+ rounds), then I step it up to a full-power load. No bad habits, no flinch, and plenty of confidence.
 

Formidilosus

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Again, do you give a kid starting to play tee-ball a bat so heavy that they can’t pick it up?Of course not. Doing so is absured. So is giving a new shooter a rifle that they can’t handle totally on their own. It doesn’t matter how old they are- you would have no interest in shooting an 80lb rifle that you could not handle by yourself. That’s what you’re doing to kids.




If people would stop what they’re doing, and start thinking logically it’s pretty obvious why precious few kids/women become seriously into rifles and hunting for life. It isn’t fun.
It isn’t fun having someone bearing over your shoulder making you sit at a bench, loading a rifle and placing it on sandbags because it too heavy/long/cumbersome for you, flinching every time it goes off, but you can’t say anything “cause daddy said it don’t kick” and you don’t want to disappoint him. Then getting up early to go sit in a shooting house over looking a salad bar, or sit in a truck driving around to find on animal, until one is found, then having your gun placed on sticks, loaded, and almost aimed for you by someone else, until you finally slam the trigger. Maybe the deer falls, then you drive the 4 wheeler to it, either someone else guts it, or they throw it in the wheeler and drive back to the truck.


Sounds great! Where do I sign up?



Now, I’m sure there’s a bunch here that don’t take it that far, however there’s also a bunch that do all of that. No kid wants to watch you play a video game. They want a controller, and they want to play themselves. Kids want an adventure, and part of the adventure is buying into it, and that means doing it themselves.
Want your kid/wife/girlfriend to really be into hunting and shooting? Get them a rifle that they can shoot all day, teach them how to shoot off of a bench, make it fun and challenging, take them scouting, let them find the animals, and let them decide how and where to hunt. Then come hunting season give them an adventure that involves a rifle. Make it fun.
 
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