Quilts. Good, bad, and which one

[Hunt_Jefferson]

I was doing some research on Zenbivy since it seems like a neat concept and was really close to buying one today with their sale, but there are so many great made in USA options with a similar or only slightly higher price I decided to pass.

Zenbivy LLC: Sleeping bags, camping beds are a sleeper hit

Michael Glavin says he's seeking to turn both the sleeping bag industry and the retail world on their heads with his camping gear company, Spokane-based Zenbivy LLC. The company's primary product is a combined sleeping bag and camping bed that

www.spokanejournal.com

The beds are manufactured in Tianjin, China, before they are shipped to Los Angeles, where two contracted workers handle distribution. Glavin says the company works with about 10 independent contractors, who are spread out across North America and Asia, but he’s the only full-time employee.

 

[AK Troutbum]

On a different note I’m sure it matters which quilt but how compact to quilts really compress in a pack?

Here’s a 10° reg/reg EE Enigma for reference.

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[Northpark]

Still working through comparisons but so far I’m really leaning towards the cedar ridge 0 degree. Made in USA is important though not the end all be all but with price being close to or even cheaper than the zenbivy it does sway me to some degree

 

[chasewright15]

I have an EE convert. 20 degree apex insulation. I'm a warm sleeper already but honestly it's mind blowing how warm it's been. Usually I'll use it in sleeping bag mode if it is projected below 20. But I've used it in quilt mode with my insulated big Agnes pad down to 20 degrees and was almost too warm, only wearing underwear and wool socks. But like I said, I truly am a really hot sleeper. The convert is great too because you can pick the foot box size or just use it as a blanket in warm weather. However, a 20 degree apex wide and long is really heavy. That's the only down side I've found of the bad for me.

 

[tsloniger]

Following

 

[BrianN]

When it comes to quilts, always get them a bit wider and longer than you think you need. Length helps because you can put your footbox over the bottom of your pad on cold nights to eliminate drafts and width gives you more room to toss and turn and eliminate drafts.

I would respectfully discourage you from inserting your sleeping pad into a quilts footbox. Almost all builders will say somewhere on their site to not do this, as it will put the ultralight shell fabrics on the underside of your pad and can cause unnecessary wear to the fabrics over time and potentially void any warranty. I agree with you on erring on side of caution and going a bit longer or wider if you're on the fence though.

 

[Lando]

I would respectfully discourage you from inserting your sleeping pad into a quilts footbox. Almost all builders will say somewhere on their site to not do this, as it will put the ultralight shell fabrics on the underside of your pad and can cause unnecessary wear to the fabrics over time and potentially void any warranty. I agree with you on erring on side of caution and going a bit longer or wider if you're on the fence though.

I was speaking in the context of having a tent or ground cloth underneath the pad and thinking of the zip/snap footbox design, which is what I have. I've never had a problem with it, it helps a lot to eliminate drafts in cold weather and there is very little movement from tossing and turning in the footbox area, so friction between the pad, quilt and ground cloth/tent is minimal to non-existent. I can see where that would be a problem when no ground cloth is used though.

 

[tdot]

I'd also recommend wider then recommended, especially as it's your first quilt, double the width if you're an active sleeper. Also look at the actual widths, some companies recommend significantly different widths.

I also prefer sewn foot box, zippered at a minimum. As a result I don't think ordering extra length is beneficial.

I quite often stuff my air mattress into my footbox. I always have a ground sheet and its never been a problem, though I can see a number of ways that this could become an issue. It just hasn't been a problem for me.

 

[Ravenk]

I have a Katabatic Palisade 30, and biggest pros for me are weight and comfort; a quilt isn't as restrictive as a bag. The quilt is so much more comfortable than a sleeping bag. But I'd recommend getting a longer quilt than you think you need if you're going to be using it in cold temps.

 

[sneaky]

I put my quilt and pad inside my bivy, that fixes draft issues and not having to stuff the pad inside the footbox.

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[208backcountry]

I don’t have much to compare too, as it is my first “high end” quilt/bag of any kind, but I have been thrilled with my WM Astralite. It is 17 oz with a 26 degree rating. Take it with a grain of salt, as I am a warm sleeper, but I pushed the limits of the quilt into the low teens with a puffy on and was very comfortable. Pad attachment system works very well.

 

[Mike Islander]

You need to compare fill weights with ratings.
Imo Enlightened highly inflates there temp ratings and you need to order the next coldest quilt.
I had a spreadsheet with I decided to go katabatic on the 2nd go round.
But for instance it you compared say a 20 degree rated quilt Enlightened would always have say 4oz less fill. Well it can't be just as warm with less fill and I think they do this to advertise a low weight.
I ended up going katabatic because I believe that pertex is a superior fabric.
That being said I have a katabatic flex 22 for sale.
I'm just not a quilt guy, bottom line is at the end of hunting hard every day im just to lazy to use the straps. Plane and simple I just want to flop down and sleep.

For the same fill rating, loft determines warmth. A narrower quilt with more loft can absolutely be warner with 4 oz less fill weight. Not saying EE is as warm as Katabatic, but want to point out that fill weight is not what determines warmth unless dimensions are identical. And even in that case construction also has a significant effect (continuous baffle, threw sewn, collar design, etc.).

As always, real world measurements are the most reliable method of determining performance. I've only used MLD and EE. Katabatic does look like it has awesome loft. I think you made a great choice.

 

[BRTreedogs]

For the same fill rating, loft determines warmth. A narrower quilt with more loft can absolutely be warner with 4 oz less fill weight. Not saying EE is as warm as Katabatic, but want to point out that fill weight is not what determines warmth unless dimensions are identical. And even in that case construction also has a significant effect (continuous baffle, threw sewn, collar design, etc.).

As always, real world measurements are the most reliable method of determining performance. I've only used MLD and EE. Katabatic does look like it has awesome loft. I think you made a great choice.

I suppose that's all true. But read post #34 on page two.
That member said he spoke with EE and told them the coldest he expected to use it was 25 and they told him to buy a 10 degree

So that proves my point to go at least one step heavier then they recommend.
And that they are falsely making there temp recommendations.
If you need a 10 rating to stay warm in 25 they they should call that a 25 degree.
So with that logic if you were gonna actually use it in 10 you would need a -5

The product itself was nice. But call it what it is so customers can buy they correct stuff. I know if various a little person to person.
But to me its quite clear they are trying to inflate there rating to sell you on a lower weight.

 

[Mike Islander]

I suppose that's all true. But read post #34 on page two.
That member said he spoke with EE and told them the coldest he expected to use it was 25 and they told him to buy a 10 degree

So that proves my point to go at least one step heavier then they recommend.
And that they are falsely making there temp recommendations.
If you need a 10 rating to stay warm in 25 they they should call that a 25 degree.
So with that logic if you were gonna actually use it in 10 you would need a -5

The product itself was nice. But call it what it is so customers can buy they correct stuff. I know if various a little person to person.
But to me its quite clear they are trying to inflate there rating to sell you on a lower weight.

Agreed. Hopefully they'll all start running the ANSI tests soon, as the best bag makers do.

 

[Nimrod62]

I have lots of nights in a Katabatic Gear Palisade 30-degree Wide quilt. It packs very compactly in a Z-Packs DCF dry bag. I'm a cold sleeper and have found that a warmer pad is a bigger deal that managing drafts, even though I shift from side to back to side multiple times in the night. I also bought a Katabatic Gear Flex 15-degree quilt for those times when I expect significantly-below freezing nights, but I have not yet used it. Katabatic Gear is pricey due to top-shelf materials and US labor, but I bought both of mine slightly used on the BPL Gear Swap. The feature that I like the most about their quilts is the draft collar, which I believe adds significantly to the warmth. There are many great cottage gear quilt makers out there. Compare the weight of the down and the fill-power. 800+ fill power is great. If in doubt go wide. Invest in a warm-but-light pad.

 

[turley]

“Compare the weight of the down and the fill-power. 800+ fill power is great.”
I’d also add looking at the width of the quilts one is comparing as each manufacturer is different (Katabatic Elite Regular 52”, EE Regular 54”, El Coyote Regular 56”). and these widths also figure into the amount of down fill needed.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I am by no means an expert on quilts but I have owned a fair number of them and I’ve been using them exclusively now for about 8 years. I currently have two MYOG quilts that I didn’t personally make so I don’t know their specs. I also have three Enlightened Equipment quilts, all regular length and width, two of which are baffle constructed and 850 fill (0° and 10°), and a 35°, sewn through constructed, also 850 fill. And lastly, I have an El Coyote 20°, baffle constructed, 900+ fill, regular length, wide width. Weights are 27 oz. for 0°, 20 oz. for 10°, 25 oz. for 20°, and 14 oz. for 35°. So obviously a little apples to oranges comparisons regarding the EC quilt being wide and 900+ fill compared to the EE quilts being only 850 fill and regular width. Also, the EC is 30% overstuffed, which makes it even more difficult to compare. I’m not a big guy (5’8” and currently heavy at 170#), but I still prefer a wider quilt, and if I’m going to be in temps below 40°, I usually won’t bring the 35° quilt.
I prefer baffled construction, and 30% overstuffing, and higher quality down is pretty hard not to like as well. That said, the EC quilt is quickly becoming my go to quilt for most conditions. It’s also kind of hard to describe, but the EC just feels more luxurious to sleep in. I think there’s obvious things make it feel nicer, like the wider size, and loftiness, but the larger foot box is also very nice, and the inner material that they use feels like silk next to the skin. Although, usually it’s only my hands and face that have any contact with the inner material.
I took a few pictures for a visual comparison and tried to show the difference in loftiness between the EC and EE quilts.

20 EC and 0 EE.

20 EC and 10 EE.

20 EC and 35 EE.

And a couple pics of the 20 EC next to the 0 EE, a literal head to head comparison.

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[turley]

I'll second the above. Probably over a decade ago I tried quilts and went with the companies regular 52" width quilt which they recommended for my size (5'4 and 145lbs-150lbs). As a side sleeper that tosses and turns I found it was difficult to keep tucked causing drafts and quickly made the decision that quilts were no longer for me and went back to bags until this past year when the realization struck me I'd been using the bags as a quilt a large portion of the time.
After researching and comparing for months I settled on a 40F from El Coyote. It was and still is a rather new company but decided to take a chance (the website at the time was not fully functional but the customer service and email communication was exceptional) and am glad I did.
My El Coyote is a 40F regular/short but is 56" wide so it provides more than enough width for tucking and preventing drafts. As the above photographs shows they have nice loft for the temperature ratings. My 40F El Coyote replaced a Western Mountaineering 35F Highlite which had significantly less loft than the quilt. The quality of construction is incredibly high and is equal to if not better than my other high end bags from Valandre and Nunatak and my now sold Western Mountaineering.
As Troutbum describes perfectly the fabric, both exterior and interior, is incredibly soft against the skin....it is a 15D so it is slightly heavier than 10D and 7D but it is more durable and more windproof than these lighter fabrics.
Quilt comparisons sometimes is difficult and not necessarily Apples to Apples.....and some look very good on paper....so it's a weeding out process. I even cut old sheets to manufacturer's specifications to see if they'd work and provide enough coverage.
At the end I can say now I'm a happy quilt user and can't see going back to bags.....I just needed to find a good fit with features that were important to me. El Coyote has become and will continue to be moving forward my quilt brand of choice.

 

[JNDEER]

For those that toss and turn a lot has anyone moved away from a bag like BA to a quilt and prefer the quilt of the BA model?

have tried a few bags and pads and always go back to BA even with different bag to pad attachment strategies. Problem for me specifically is shoulder girth and I have to get the long bag to get a wide version when I only want/need the regular. So on cold nights I find cold spots in the large bag.

 

[BrianN]

For those that toss and turn a lot has anyone moved away from a bag like BA to a quilt and prefer the quilt of the BA model?

have tried a few bags and pads and always go back to BA even with different bag to pad attachment strategies. Problem for me specifically is shoulder girth and I have to get the long bag to get a wide version when I only want/need the regular. So on cold nights I find cold spots in the large bag.

With custom quilts like the above mentioned, you will have the option to choose any length in combination with any width and not be bound to basic general sizes like "large" or "medium". You will also have the ability to vent at the sides or toe if needed unlike a traditional or hybrid type bag. I have broad shoulders also and I use a regular/wide quilt.