Rain gear ?.

[Silvereagle50]

Planning a sheep hunt in the future. From a suggestion of a buddy and a little research, had decided I would use the kuiu chugach set.
Was talking to another friend yesterday and picking his brain on a few things (he’s been on several hunts in Alaska and such) and he suggested I stay away from any rain gear that used gortex.
His theory was that once gortex gets soaked, it takes forever to dry.

What experience with this have some of y’all had? What suggestions do you have?
His suggestion was some set made of pvc material. He couldn’t remember the name at the time. Of course my worry is roasting in such a rain suit.

 

[tdot]

He's not wrong. When the face fabric of gore tex wets out, it stops working. However if the garment is well cared for, that usually takes awhile.

However PVC is useless in high output activities. I sweat in the stuff just walking. So now you're wet from the inside. Now sitting around camp. Especially in a very wet area a PVC setup isnt a bad idea.

As much as Goretex and other membranes arent perfect. They are better then PVC for hiking.

Learning how to layer your insulation and take care of your waterproof gear will help it to work as well as it can.

 

[wind gypsy]

Kuiu doesn’t use gore Tex but does use a similar technology. It’s true that it all wets out with some exposure to rain, and I’ve yet to find any that doesn’t wet out in short order in heavier rain. “Breathable” rain gear will be more comfortable in everything except a steady rain.. plenty of people manage to use breathable stuff effectively but if it gets biblical I’d count on being soaked.


Listen to the tundra talk podcast about this very topic if you’d like to hear more about the downfalls of breathable rain gear.

 

[Jardo]

PVC on a sheep or any high exertion hunt is not a good option. Way too heavy and won’t breathe.

Goretex isn’t perfect but it along with the other mainstream membranes are best.

Look at kuiu or Sitka gear. 95% of the sheep hunters are using either one of these.


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[Nmbowhunter06]

I have the Sitka cloudburst and haven’t had any issues with it wetting out.

 

[Silvereagle50]

That’s what she said....

Kuiu doesn’t use gore Tex but does use a similar technology. It’s true that it all wets out with some exposure to rain, and I’ve yet to find any that doesn’t wet out in short order in heavier rain. “Breathable” rain gear will be more comfortable in everything except a steady rain.. plenty of people manage to use breathable stuff effectively but if it gets biblical I’d count on being soaked.


Listen to the tundra talk podcast about this very topic if you’d like to hear more about the downfalls of breathable rain gear.

This is kinda what I was thinking. Seems the Kuiu or Sitka gear would be more comfortable in the long run.
I'm guessing carrying a second rain jacket (so you would have something dry to wear if raining multiple days in a row) would be too much???

 

[Silvereagle50]

Listen to the tundra talk podcast about this very topic if you’d like to hear more about the downfalls of breathable rain gear.
[/QUOTE]

Any help in finding the exact podcast your talking about? My search isn't going well.
Preferably the youtube version.

 

[Nick Muche]

With regards to the podcast, Tyler's situation was not the norm in that he had some other things go wrong well before he had to rely on his rain gear to a point well past what normal use would entail.

That being said, most of the time when it's raining hard on a sheep hunt, you are holed up in your tent, avoiding it. You'd be just fine with a high quality set of rain gear from FL, Sitka or KUIU. If you don't want to go that route and you are capable of layering up and layering down based on your body temperature before sweating your tail off becomes an issue, then Helly Hansen rain gear will certainly suffice. You likely won't be pounding through alders and willows very much, it'll be mostly open country and for that reason I'd have to think that high end rain gear from any of the usual companies will work just fine on your sheep hunt.

Here is the podcast in question; https://tundratalkak.com/episode-61-good-rams-and-bad-rain-gear/

 

[AKHUNTER]

I've not used it on a sheep hunt, but my Simms Guide jacket is 3-layer Gore-Tex and I don't recall it ever "wetting" through. It's by far the best rain coat that I have ever used. The pockets are great, the hood is great, and it happens to fit me very well. Remember, hunting clothing does not have to be camo color. It also serves as a great wind-breaker when glassing on windy mt tops. With a hooded puffy jacket underneath it is pretty warm.

 

[ColeyG]

When it rains really hard for an extended period of time you are going to get wet regardless of what sort of rain gear you have.

I am big fan of both PVC style rain gear and Goretex stuff and have a collection of each.

Personally, I would never consider using anything other than Goretex (or mainstream proprietary equivalents) for backpack hunts and/or for applications where you might be expected to be active in your rain gear, as opposed to say sitting in a boat or on a wheeler.

In PVC gear, you will get wet from sweat, condensation, or some combination thereof over time.

In waterproof breathable gear you will get wet from the same, and possibly from leaks and transmission of water through the "waterproof" membrane.

Just because the exterior fabric of a waterproof-breathable garment gets wet or "wets out" doesn't mean the membrane is leaking or that you will get wet on the inside as a result. All this means is that the DWR coating has worn of the exterior of the garment. See previous threads about Nikwax products re: cleaning and restoring the DWR finish.

One of the biggest things that causes waterproof-breathable garments to leak on the inside is that they are dirty. These waterproof-breathable membranes have micro-pores in them to allow moisture to move from inside the garment to the outside world. When the garment gets dirty, these pores get clogged and the gunk in them acts as a sponge to would and allows moister to move from the outside in if that makes any sense. Hence the need for cleaning with products designed to remove dirt from these types of garments.

PVC is great for applications where you are standing or sitting around in the rain, but this stuff is heavy, bulky, and not usually cut in a way that allows for the ease and freedom of movement of most modern Goretex gear like Sitka, Kuiu, etc. Minus the sweat and condensation factor, hiking long distances in rubber rain gear tends to wear me out because of the weight and fighting the fabric for movement, especially going uphill, something you will do a lot of sheep hunting.

Regarding dry time, totally saturated Goretex gear is still lighter than most PVC gear. If your stuff is relatively new, it won't wet out and become totally saturated, inside or out, and should dry relatively quickly after the rain quits. If it is wetting out, wash it and restore the DWR before your trip.

If you are using a synthetic sleeping bag, you can put a nalgene full of hot water in your bag with wet items and dry stuff out relatively quickly, aka the backcountry laundry dryer.

 

[wind gypsy]

Coley, I agree with almost all of what you’re saying but I just don’t feel that dwr is that effective keeping face fabric from wetting out. I’ve had new rain gear from Sitka, first lite, arcteryx, Simms, Patagonia, and others, and in all cases the face fabric will wet out in less than 10 minutes of steady rain when they were brand new.

 

[ColeyG]

Which isn't really a big deal. Wet face fabric just makes the garments a bit heavier than they would otherwise be.

My experience has been that DWR doesn't last long. It is fairly easily worn off by intense use, repeated packing and unpacking, in high abrasion areas like the back and shoulders if wearing a backpack, etc. I think the term "durable" water repellent is comical at best.

After refurbishing with a DWR treatment, my garments have all beaded up water on the outside for the first few uses post treatment at least. Better than nothing.

 

[Silvereagle50]

Guess I need to figure out what this DWR refurb stuff is.


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[walleyes]

Nikiwash tech wash is what I use on my dwr clothing and it helps it bead water off. Not rain gear by any means.
I use the chugach but heard that the new Kutana was a step up

 

[duchntr]

You'll be fine with the Chugach stuff, Ive been using it on sheep hunts for a number of years and have been happy with it.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

For most of my wet weather hunts I pack Sitka Dewpoint gear however, when venturing into cold and wet places where rain, sleet and snow may dominate my hunt I turn to the Sitka Thunderhead. It's serious rain gear, kinda heavy and silent (brushed surface material) for bow hunting. It's great when the temps drop into freezing range.

 

[Jimss]

Kuiu or Sitka are the way to go on sheep hunts! Although Helly Hanson is the bomb in camp or boat I would avoid it while hiking. I do everything in my power to keep my rain gear dry. I wear as few layers as possible while hiking. This may mean down to a T-shirt or thermals under my raingear. When possible I open up vents to allow circulation through my raingear....the more circulation the better! Every chance I have I'll set my raingear out on willows/rock to dry when weather is nice. I have large vestibules in my tents which are nice to dry wet items. Make sure your rain jacket has pitzips to prevent yourself from getting wet from the inside-out. If hunting from a base camp it may be a good idea to have an extra set of raingear so you can continually switch off wet for dry.

 

[Hopper-dropper]

For years I have heard stay away from Gore-tex if you expect a lot of rain. It's always the same, it will "wet out".
So honest question here. What is the difference between the Gore-tex used in rain gear vs the Gore-tex used in waders?
I have spent hundreds of hours in the water wearing Gore-tex waders and never had them "wet out". You guys that wear Simms or similar waders, are they kept clean with a constant refresh of DWR coatings?
Mine are rode hard, put away wet, and pretty dirty. They don't "wet out" or leak unless barbed wire is involved. My current pair of waders have three years of 60 plus days a year in the water and they have yet to "wet out"

If the wader guys can make a garment out of Gore-tex to keep you dry, it sure seems like the high end clothing guys should be able to figure it out.

 

[Jimss]

If you go to the Sims website it states in their add, "Highly durable & puncture resistant GORE-TEX® Pro Shell 3-layer upper & 5 layer lower". That' a lot of layers! If you think about it, quality gortex lined boots generally stay waterproof and get hammered pretty hard as well.

I really don't think all gortex or gortex-ish materials are created equally. I've lost count of how many buddies with Cabelas brand "gortex' or their material similar to gortex leak once soaked. On the other-hand, I have several complete pairs of Marmot precip that I've used and abused in Alaska, Colo, and Wyo....and have held up almost as well as my Sitka raingear.

If you want the very best light, breathable, and waterproof raingear available go with Kuiu or Sitka. They wouldn't stay in business and have such a following if they couldn't back up their great warrantees!

 

[ColeyG]

Simms waders "wet out" just like any other 3-layer, 5-layer garments do. "Wet out" doesn't mean that the garment leaks or gets wet on the inside, but rather that the face fabric absorbs some amount of water rather than shedding it all.

As a former fishing guide, I've gone through 10-ish pairs of Simms waders in the last 15 years. I've never worried about the DWR on my Simms waders as I tend to be pretty rough on mine and a fresh coating wouldn't last more than an outing or two. Additionally, I don't care if the face fabric gets wet and stays wet for a while in this context. The fabric that Simms uses on the outside of most of their waders doesn't seem to absorb much water either even after the DWR coating has been worn off.

Gore-tex makes something like a dozen different fabrics and several membranes used in a wide variety of applications. The easiest way to wade through (pardon the pun) the pond of information is to look at the hang tag. The products with the gold hang tags that bear the "guaranteed to keep you dry" is the one most of us are talking about. Their "waterproof, breathable" membrane.

Another important distinction to be aware of is the difference between the Gore-tex membrane, and other Gore-tex fabrics. The membrane is the "waterproof and breathable" plastic layer that gets laminated to other fabrics in the fabric manufacturing process. Gore makes a number of fabrics that include this membrane. 3-layer and 5-layer refer to the number of other fabrics or materials laminated to the Gore-tex membrane. A 3-layer garment will have a face fabric, the Gore-tex membrane, and a backing fabric that are all laminated together into a single sheet of fabric from which a garment is then built. Same with 5-layer which, for obvious reasons, is going to be much more durable and less leak prone over time, hence the reason for making waders with it. You don't see 5-layer used in things like rain pants and jackets because it is super heavy (by comparison) and quite stiff.

Lots of info here https://www.gore-tex.com/support/frequently-asked-questions

There are many proprietary versions of waterproof breathable membranes out there that are often generally referred to as "Gore-tex" that are not made by WL Gore. Patagonia's H2No, Marmot NanoPro, Mountain Hardwear Vapor Dry and Dry Q etc.

The Kuiu Chugach line uses a 3-layer fabric and membrane called "Primeflex" made by Toray. I have no idea how it compares to products made by Gore, which have been the gold standard for years. Sitka uses Gore-tex.