Release Issues

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
Ok, so I've been shooting a two finger thumb release for about a year now. I've also been trying to shoot a pure tension release for several months. Here's my first dilemma. When I shoot the tension activated release, my poi is right by several inches at 30 yds and much further at 60. Why would this be? If I shoot the thumb using back tension I do not get the same result.

My next dilemma is that I used to shoot the trigger release pretty dang well. In fact, I'm shooting worse I believe since switching to the thumb. I tried to go back to the trigger and it just felt awkward to me. Do I just forget everything and go to a hinge? Stuck in no mans land right now and getting frustrated. I went to the thumb and tension to try and get rid of some target panic. Anyone been through any of these things?
 

Elc1973

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Messages
91
Location
Fairbanks, AK
I've been using the carter evolution tension release for the past 6 months. The first 2 or 3 were the hardest. You have to stick with it and then one day it will just click and you will no longer even think about it. now I am shooting much better and feeling super confident with my shots. Good luck!!
 
OP
S

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
My issue with the tension style release is how far right I'm hitting. I mean at 60 yds I miss a 24" target. I'm not the best shot in the world, but I would expect a 6" grouping at 60 yds, not missing the entire target. At 20 yds, it's a couple inches at most right. When using my thumb release, I'm dead on and even shooting the thumb release with back tension, I'm still on. I have no idea why the tension style would be so far right. It's the Silverback from Dudley (basically a 2 finger version of the evolution).
 

mathews8pt

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
339
Location
Ohio
What releases are you shooting now?

I have a nock2it and a silverback and POI is pretty much the same. It takes some getting use to on the tension releases so give it time. Also, if you are tired and wore out from shooting it can make you frustrated quickly so I recommend just taking a break if you feel like you are straining to try and pull through.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
S

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
That's exactly what I'm shooting. I adjusted the spring that came standard as light as it would go and I could barely get it to go off without just ripping through. I can now get it to release, but not nearly like the nock2it (shooting it with tension and not punching the thumb). I'm at 70 lbs, so I have no idea why I had to put the lighter spring in. I get to shaking I'm pulling so hard at times. And all that being said, I have no idea why my poi is so far right. I'm shooting bullet holes through paper with either release.
 

Brendan

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
3,644
Location
Boston, MA
I have the same two releases, so here's some thoughts for you - they may or may not help.

The simple answer is, something about your shot is different between the two. It could be how you anchor on your face and the string pressure you're generating, your form is different, or you're pulling through the shot differently and your back tension / execution is different.

On my Silverback, I had to go up in weight or it would fire as soon as I let off the safety, I shoot a 72 lb bow. But, this is determined by your letoff and holding weight. My letoff is ~70-75%, so would have a much higher holding weight and higher trigger setting than for a bow with 85% letoff. This depends on your setup.

Form: Any chance your draw length is a little long or your front shoulder is collapsing? I've noticed with the Silverback, that if I have rock solid form and get locked in, the release will fire with very little effort. Conversely, if I start getting tired, shoulder starts collapsing - same release setting and same bow I feel like I can't get it to go off no matter how hard I pull sometimes. It made a big difference for me to shorten up my draw length 1/2" so I'm less stretched out, and when my bow arm is fully extended, that puts the string just at the tip of my nose (Dudley has a good video on this). That way if I'm burying the string into my nose or past the tip - I know my shoulder is collapsing or my arm is bending.

Instead of shooting through paper - might want to shoot a bare shaft and see what that's doing and see if it behaves the same between the two releases.

Good Luck!
 
OP
S

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
Thanks for the help. I know sometimes my shoulder collapses and when this happens, yes it's almost impossible to shoot. I also occasionally get my hips to hinge and my upper body is leaning back somewhat which also makes it hard. My letoff is 80%, but feels like more than that to be honest. I am shooting a long stabilizer right now and I've wondered whether just the pulling motion is torqueing the bow more because of that stabilizer. However, that doesn't make sense with target shooters, etc. I have wondered about shortening my draw length a half an inch, but I feel like it's hard to get my nose to the string right now. Almost feels like I'm tucking my chin. I'm sure I"m not and it's in my head, but who knows. I'll post some pics later today and see what anyone comes up with.
 

mathews8pt

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
339
Location
Ohio
Is your bow arm pretty much straight or do you run a bend in it? I see a lot of guys actually bend their arm some and I would think that would make it almost impossible to shoot a tension release well.

A scale will help you setup and check the release for repeatability. I have heard a couple guys that had issues and had to send them back to get fixed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

FangAgainstBullet

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
264
Is the string contacting your face differently between the two releases? Could be how you're pulling into the string and follow through. I tried mixing in the evolution a few years ago, while shooting a Carter hinge, and noticed that (1) my anchor was a little off and (2) I was taking longer to fire the shot which was making me pull harder into the wall which made me pull the string harder onto my face along with the shot just collapsing. I really liked the evolution but I went back to the hinge. Figure it's better to pick one release and shot it and only it until it's second nature. Hope that helps.
 
OP
S

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
I don't think it's contacting differently, but definitely could be wrong. Will have to pay attention to it. I've tried to set silverback on a scale and just can't seem to get a reading. It's like it's the same reading no matter which way I turn the screw. I haven't tried the scale since putting in the lighter screw though. If I use my "string bow" I can obviously get it to go off very quickly without much tension. With my bow, totally different story.
 

FangAgainstBullet

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
264
Have you watched the video John Dudley did for the Silverback? You could also try emailing him and/or searching through his podcast for info on the release.
 

FangAgainstBullet

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Messages
264
Also, there's a Carter "Backstrap" for sale on AT right now. You mentioned you finger release but switched to deal with target panic. That release fits like a trigger release but is resistance activated like the silverback/evolution. Dudley also has a pretty long video for the evolution that may help.
 
OP
S

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
Yeah I've watched about everything he has published several times. I just don't know if it's me or the release. The last couple times I've sent him messages I haven't heard back. And understandably so. I'm anxious for his new website where I can load video, have him look at things etc.
 
OP
S

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
[video=youtube_share;_XO5vmF9Cio]https://youtu.be/_XO5vmF9Cio[/video]

One where I couldn't get the release to fire.
 
OP
S

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
More of a closeup. Took me 15 seconds to get it to fire. I don't like how vertical my hand is, but when it's not, the string digs into my face.

[video=youtube_share;tDLHDUJ-gPA]https://youtu.be/tDLHDUJ-gPA[/video]
 

Lawnboi

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
4,558
Location
North Central Wi
I own a Stan element. The release demands absolute consistency. If anything is off it may fire immediately or not at all.
 

Gumbo

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
1,264
Location
Montana
I bought a Silverback and Nock 2 It to replace my Too Simples because I wanted the longer head and liked shooting with two fingers better. I really like the Nock but the Silverback was a waste of money for me so I sold it. My thought is if you are shooting a thumb well with back tension why do you need the Silverback? I thought it would be a great training device but it never clicked for me. My groups were awful and rather than struggling with it for no real reason I just stuck with what worked for me, a thumb with backtension.
 
OP
S

sim22mie

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Messages
75
Location
NE
Went and shot again this morning. I put the lightest screw and backed out the screw as far as it would go. This is supposed to be 11 lbs of resistance. I don't have a scale so I can't verify. Anyway, I still could barely get the thing to fire. Maybe something is defective. I used my nock2it with tension and it fired almost too quickly. Shot probably 7-8 ends with the no k2it and using tension and every single end it fired easily when using proper tension.
 

Brendan

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
3,644
Location
Boston, MA
If I adjust mine too weak - I'll let off the safety and it'll fire immediately from the holding weight, and that's with the springs that came installed. In fact, I had to tighten it down and raise the tension after pulling it out of the package. Sounds to me like you might have something going on with yours.
 

wapitibob

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
3,562
Location
Bend Oregon
Resistance activated releases will never be consistent. Hand angle and string to hook angle will never be the same from shot to shot, and on a Carter the string/sear angle makes a world of difference.
If you want consistency, go to a non safety hinge. They're the only release that has to be in the same position to fire. You can walk arrows across the target face with a thumb button with just release hand position.
 
Last edited:
Top