Rent a Kowa

[5 shot group]

I am torn between a swaro ATX 65/95 set up and a Kowa 883/553 system. I have read everything I can find and watched every YouTube video out there and found it all comes down to what MY eyes like the best.

So I would like to compare them side by side and let MY eyes decide, but there is no place within reason to me who sells kowa. I have a Cabela's and Scheels near me and both of which sell swaro and would allow me to take one outside (attended of course) and look through the swaro.

So I figure I might be able to rent a 883 and put it side by side the swaro and then decide. But I cannot find anyplace that rents the larger Kowa (553 yes, but not the 883).

So I am wondering if anyone might know where I could rent a 883 for my comparison. Or if somebody in the Billings area has an 883 and wouldn't mind helping out a fellow Rokslide member, please send me a PM.

 

[sneaky]

Probably be easier to find a 773 to compare as most guys run those due to size and weight savings over the 883. That was the primary reason I went with a 773.

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[Don Qui Puncher]

Check Birding stores, I was looking to compare the Swaro VS Kowa as well and was looking more at hunting shops then I went on the Kowa dealer locator and there’s 2 shops within an hour of me that carry Kowa and the big 3

 

[5 shot group]

The 773 doesn't use the pure florite glass that's in the 88 series. This is going to be a buy once cry once purchase. I do a lot of long range shooting, so it will be getting used a few times a month outside of hunting season.

I looked for a birding store near me and didn't find any that had both the swaro and kowa. I did find a Kowa dealer about 2 hours away, so that may be worth a drive soon. You did make me think about the Autobahn society in town, so I think I will be giving them a call when I get home and seeing if I can work something out with them

 

[sneaky]

The 773 doesn't use the pure florite glass that's in the 88 series. This is going to be a buy once cry once purchase. I do a lot of long range shooting, so it will be getting used a few times a month outside of hunting season.

I looked for a birding store near me and didn't find any that had both the swaro and kowa. I did find a Kowa dealer about 2 hours away, so that may be worth a drive soon. You did make me think about the Autobahn society in town, so I think I will be giving them a call when I get home and seeing if I can work something out with them

I am well aware of the difference between the 77 and 88 series, and you'll be hard pressed to notice a difference if you put them side by side. Only you can decide if it's a $700 difference, but then again, why would you take the word of someone who has used both and already owns a Kowa? My scope gets used several times a week considering I live in the mountains in the middle of deer and elk country. Also, you make a point to bring up the fluorite glass, the Swaro doesn't use pure fluorite glass so why even consider it? For the same, or even less money, you can buy a 77 and an 88 body with the WA eyepiece and have a setup every bit the equal to the Swaro. The Kowa TE-11Z eyepiece is outstanding. I think you meant your local Audubon society for birding.

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[Ledd Slinger]

I was also very interested in the Kowa as well and decided against it since I couldnt find one to look through.

Owned the Meopta S2 HD 20-70x for a few years. Sold it and got the Swarovski ATX 95mm and 65mm kit.

Had the Swaro for about a year and wasnt overly impressed compared to the Meopta. Meopta had much better chromatic aberration control and richer colors.

Looked into the Kowa 883, but the closest dealer was a 6 hour drive. Never found time to make the trip so I finally gave up on the idea.

Have since sold the Swarovski ATX, purchased another Meopta S2 HD and couldnt be happier.

 

[5 shot group]

I am aware swaro does not use florite glass, but it does have a 7mm advantage over the Kowa. I am not considering the 77 series because it's object is even smaller. If swaro used florite, then I would go swaro because of the 95. But they don't, so I want to see if my eyes can decide on the florite being better or that the larger objective is better to my eyes.

It's 2 different companies in the same market taking two different paths. One going bigger glass, the other going to better glass.

I have paid less for used cars and always test drove them before purchase. If I could organize it, why should this be any different?

 

[sneaky]

I am aware swaro does not use florite glass, but it does have a 7mm advantage over the Kowa. I am not considering the 77 series because it's object is even smaller. If swaro used florite, then I would go swaro because of the 95. But they don't, so I want to see if my eyes can decide on the florite being better or that the larger objective is better to my eyes.

It's 2 different companies in the same market taking two different paths. One going bigger glass, the other going to better glass.

I have paid less for used cars and always test drove them before purchase. If I could organize it, why should this be any different?

Say what? Read your initial post. You said you were considering a Swaro 65/95 set. You do whatever you want since you're changing the game as you go. I'll do my own math where 77>65. If Swaro used fluorite it would cost $6k considering what they charge for non fluorite glass.

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[Ledd Slinger]

I am aware swaro does not use florite glass, but it does have a 7mm advantage over the Kowa. I am not considering the 77 series because it's object is even smaller. If swaro used florite, then I would go swaro because of the 95. But they don't, so I want to see if my eyes can decide on the florite being better or that the larger objective is better to my eyes.

It's 2 different companies in the same market taking two different paths. One going bigger glass, the other going to better glass.

I have paid less for used cars and always test drove them before purchase. If I could organize it, why should this be any different?

If you put the Swaro ATX/STX side by side with a top of the line spotter using Flourite element ED glass in a good APO lens configuration, the difference in chromatic aberration control is noticeable. At least it is to me anyhow. If the Meopta does it better with its ED APO lenses, then the fact that the Kowa 883 uses a pure manufactured flourite Crystal front objective lens tells me that it would most likely control CA much better than the Swarovski as well.

The modular design of the ATX/STX/BTX is a cool concept, but I found it very hard to use the 65mm objective module after using the 95mm. The 95mm is so much brighter and the 'sweet spot' is so much larger. I think I used my 65mm one time and it never saw the eyepiece module again. If it wasnt for the lack of CA control and lesser level of color contrast, I would have kept the Swaro. In those 2 areas, the Meopta was the clear winner to my eyes.

For resolution, the big Swarovski is amazing. However, the resolution suffers greatly in conditions where mirage is a factor. With perfect conditions, the Swarovski 95mm will very slightly out resolve the Meopta S2 but you have to look hard to find it. In hazy and mirage conditions, the Meopta fights it's way through it better than the Swaro to deliver better resolution. For color contrast, the Swarovski has a warm yellow tone bias. The colors just dont 'pop' for me like they do in Meopta or Leica glass. Some folks dont really pay much attention to that, but it makes a huge difference to me for hunting purposes. I gravitate towards glass with superior color contrast after many years and countless hours spent glassing in the field for big game animals. When the slightest difference in tan colors stand out, (ie; a light tan colored bottom half of a deer leg sticking out from behind a tree with slightly different tan colored dry grass behind it) it makes me much more effective at finding animals on a hill or mountainside.

 

[5 shot group]

@Ledd Slinger

Thank you for the response. You have now peaked my interest in the Meopta line and given me more homework lol.

The 65mm would be used for the back back country hunts and where pounds really matter (hence the 553). Seems like I should dig through some more threads and see if others feel the 65 is less used then their 95 and worth truly picking up or not.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Fo

@Ledd Slinger

Thank you for the response. You have now peaked my interest in the Meopta line and given me more homework lol.

The 65mm would be used for the back back country hunts and where pounds really matter (hence the 553). Seems like I should dig through some more threads and see if others feel the 65 is less used then their 95 and worth truly picking up or not.

I bought the 65mm for the same weight reasons. It was just hard because I knew how much optical advantage I was leaving behind if I didnt have the 95mm.

Although I never tried it, all the reviews say the 85mm is a good compromise between the two and it doesnt give up much of anything to the 95mm. Of course I cant truly comment since ive never looked through an 85mm. But with the ATX, if you only buy one objective, I think you are defeating the purpose of the modular design. Without multiple objectives or eyepieces, it's really just another high end spotting scope. Without using the modular advantage of the ATX, I would suggest a person save their money and just buy a Meopta S2, Swaro ATS HD, Kowa 883, Leica APO Televid 82, or whatever other high end spotter your eyes prefer.

With the eyepiece, 95mm and 65mm objectives, 1.7x magnification extender, SOCs for all modules, and a hard case I was up over $6K for the Swarovski ATX kit. A lot of money on something with optics that didnt make me think it was any better than the Meopta I had previously. Basically just paid a large amount of money for a modular design that I never really used anyhow.

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

I’m going to the local Kowa dealer this week which I called today and has the 77&88 in stock I can’t decide between the 2, now the Meopta has peaked my interest again, I was originally looking at Meopta and Kowa and had been leaning towards Kowa lately now I need to find a Meopta dealer in driving distance, back to square one

 

[aron]

you might have better luck renaming the thread to see if someone in your area has a Kowa and available to meet at Cabelas/Scheels. Or better yet, find a group of people and meet out of town and put them in comparison in different conditions and where you can take the time to really compare versus standing in a parking lot.

 

[204guy]

I have a 553 and 883. I'm in Buffalo/Sheridan you can check them out if you're ever down this way.