Rokstok + Maven RS 1.2 + UM Tikka Rings + S2H U = a revolution in hunting for 2024?

[Dobermann]

I guess I'm stating the obvious, but it feels like a combination of new offerings in 2023 has the potential to revolutionize hunting:

• the Rokstok
• the Maven RS 1.2 scope
• UM Tikka Rings
• Shoot2Hunt University

Nothing else does what each of the above components do. Together, they have the potential to make shootability, spotting one's shots, having a reliable rifle platform, and knowing what to do with it all, more likely.

(I know Form said on the recent Shoot2Hunt podcast that the Rokstock is not revolutionary, but just a few percent improvement on what went before. But bah humbug, what would he know? )

And to think that all of the above have had a major contribution from Rokslide.

Thanks to @Ryan Avery, @Formidilosus, @Unknown Munitions, @Stockys, @PNWGATOR, and everyone else who's had a hand in each of the above.

Who's with me?

 

[willfrye027]

Maybe if you actually put it all to use and shoot a lot?

 

[Dobermann]

Maybe if you actually put it all to use and shoot a lot?

Yep ... that's the idea ...

 

[Clarktar]

Revolutionize? Seems a bit rich....

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[kickemall]

Solid plan at least.

 

[atmat]

I think all of those things are great, and I’m always excited about improvements coming to market.

But I think folks are being generous with the terms they’re throwing out. These aren’t revolutionary, they’re incremental improvements in what already existed.

The reality is that most people don’t practice enough in terms of volume or structure to make significant improvements. That won’t change with newer, better equipment.

Past a point in gear, there’s still no substitute for practice/experience.

This is all coming from someone who didn’t shoot remotely enough prior to this year, and yet was always upgrading gear.

 

[prm]

Maybe we should start with one production stock and see how it goes. I applaud your enthusiasm though.

edit: the idea of a solid scope, good mounting system, stock that reduces muzzle rise and facilitates a good position/grip, are worthy of incremental improvement.

 

[Reburn]

Its good having THINGS that dont suck.

However.

Without meaningful practice YOU will still suck.

Alot of guys miss this.

 

[dirtytough]

Rangefinders revolutionized hunting. OnX revolutionized hunting.

I bet less than 0.001% more game will be killed because of the revolutions you mentioned. It’s like every year when a revolutionary new bow comes out. Minor minor improvements if they even are improvements.

It’s such a small subset of people that will even buy this stuff. And since the marketing for some of the stuff is subpar it isn’t going to reach further than RS.

 

[Macintosh]

To me “revolutionize” equates to a sea-change, perhaps something like the invention of the laser rangefinder allowing one to take confident shots past point-blank range in the first place without stuff like reticle-ranging, or perhaps going from bows and arrows to firearms, or stone tools to metal tools. Anything less than that seems highly incremental to me. Thats not to say that incremental change doesnt have value—add up a bunch of incremental change and it makes a big difference. It’s also not at all shade cast on anyone that produces incremental improvements, that also takes a variety of skills and knowledge and doesnt happen easily. But I think its human nature to a degree to discount the things that came before and actually how good they are and how much they allowed us to do—and still allow us to do. In short, I think we take what exists now or in the past and discount it too much, which is a mistake.

 

[roosiebull]

Toys and tools, I don’t think any of it will change hunting, but they are tools that could improve individuals in marksmanship, which certainly can apply in the field, and for those who practice, the tools are all confidence builders, so it’s all certainly connected, but there will be no revolution

 

[mt100gr.]

It's cool stuff that I'll probably try at some point, to some extent. But guys following those products, testing and development likely have a solid, tested "delivery system", as we say here....new stuff isn't going to make anyone more successful.

I could feed my .223 for a LOT of practice for the cost of these incremental improvements.

I know my rifles, scopes, etc well and at this point I have/will spend my money on ammo and components and cutting and threading more barrels and buying suppressors. You will practice more with a suppressed rifle.

 

[Darryle]

Bank accounts maybe, hunting not so much.

Previous posters mentioned what would revolutionize your hunting

 

[Dobermann]

Thanks for engaging with this, folks.

Maybe 'revolution' was too strong? I wasn't meaning for all of hunting, per se, but for the kind of hunting that many Roksliders do. I wasn't meaning a giant increase in animals killed across the board, or even necessarily changing what other people build or buy (although I am optimistic that the Rokstock could influence stock design a lot).

Perhaps I can just say I genuinely think they'll revolutionise my own shooting and hunting.

And skills improvement, and shooting a lot, while clearly not a 'given' is obviously important - I don't believe in gear magically granting skill. But for those wanting to build skill, then I think the list above - and the combination of them - could improve outcomes.

For some context: yes, what we had has 'worked' before. clearly. But gear has the ability to improve or detract from performance, and the rifle system - and the knowledge of how to apply it - are clearly key here.

Yes, we can take this to reductionist extremes: Jacob (and likely others) have stuck actions to 2x4s to show that good fundamentals can overcome poor setups. A lot of stuff has clearly been killed with iron sights. And so on. This clearly doesn't mean that a well-designed stock is easier to shoot, or that some scopes perform better than others.

My main contention was that the four elements in my OP offer us things that weren't available before, and I think that's still valid:

- Stock: No other stock has the features of the Rokstok. Its design will clearly reduce muzzle rise, allowing better sighting of shots, which in turn will allow both immediate feedback as well as follow-up shots. This is not insignificant. Remember that Form said he's basically been wanting this stock to be made for 25 years - and @Ryan Avery, @Unknown Munitions, and @Stockys made it happen.

- Scope: Very few scopes pass durability tests. We've covered here many times that NF reticles aren't great for hunting, and quite a few of us wanted (rightly or wrongly) parallax adjustment, an illuminated centre dot, slightly more magnification, and clearer mil markings than the SWFA. It's almost as if (almost; let's not get literal here, folks!) the RS 1.2 combines some of the best elements of the SWFA 3-9 with the ZP5 with THLR reticle. And from Form's update to the eval thread yesterday, it sounds like Maven specifically wanted to build a scope that did what we wanted - and were open to real teseting and feedback. All of this is a shift.

- Rings: Without good rings we see system failure - yet this is often undiagnosed. Direct rings for the Tikka dovetail have significant benefits. Sportsmatch were sometimes hard to get, not as wide, and didn't have moveable pins. The Mountain Tacticals are okay, but the machining is a little 'meh' to me, and the spacing is set - it's more of a mount than rings. The UM rings have been purpose-designed, and allow for more precise eye relief, shell ejection, spacing on the scope body, and so on. Again, the fact that @Unknown Munitions listened to the market and made what we needed, is significant.

- Instruction: As Form mentioned in the Class/clinics in the SE thread, there aren't really any options like S2HU. Phil and Caylen cover some hunting-based content; Chris W is applying his field comp knowledge to a new course, but from the small amount of coverage I've seen of all three, S2HU is unique.

So, 'revolution' may be too strong. But I think the combination of the above has the potential to improve people's shooting by a long way ... and most of us have a long way to go.

I guess all I was ultimately wanting to do was to thank everyone who has put in the years of work to know what works, what could be improved, and get after it, and to thank those who then made it happen.

It seems fortuitous that all of these elements came together in just the last year ... and I for one wanted to just show some gratitude.

 

[SDHNTR]

Fanboi much?

 

[Dobermann]

Fanboi much?

Err ... no.