Situational, How to kill the bull?

[mobohunter]

Question on how would you play this scenario while Elk Hunting; will share what we did in a couple days.


Season: Archery

Time: Evening, 1.5 hours left of shooting light. Late Sept.

Conditions: High 84 with a wind out of the East / SE.

Hunting Area: 2 Drainages running parallel SW to NE


This was our 8th day on the mountain. We had been working the northern drainage throughout the day, thinking with the warm temperatures the elk would be on the north facing slopes out of the sun; however they were not talking. As the sun slowly started to fall, we were approaching a saddle around 11,400 where we could cross back to the southern drainage and hunt our way back to camp. We made our way through, on the southern edge of the saddle, the timber thinned and opened leading all the way down to a meadow at 11,000. 1 cow, 2 cow, herd of cows; Bino’s up, against a tree for cover. Rag horn, spike, 6x6 herd bull with chocolate antlers. Herd working from NE to South. Bull makes his way to a low tree and beds down. Herd of cows and small bulls feeding in the meadow.

Sparse to heavy timber to the North and South along the South facing slope on either side of the meadow, wet weather creek in the meadow that leads down to the middle of the drainage where a larger running creek is situated.

Hunters 400 ft above the herd, wind in our face, however thermals could start to drop any minute. Camp is 1.5 miles down the drainage. I think this is enough, but if you want any other details, reply!

 

[Beendare]

So you only have to get another 60y or so for a shot? I just crawl in on him.

No way I call in that scenario.....

 

[farmermail]

 

[Read1t48]

I would have given a ‘bull calling cows’ bugle. And ran in right after to close the distance. By the time the bull was on his feet, he would have no choice except to address you. You could call again after closing the distance, if needed, and then you’d really be in his bedroom. Bull would have no choice except to fight.

I don’t like being way above bulls. I want them to feel like they have the upper hand or a close to equal hand. With thermals in my favor, I would try to do all of the above while working to get to a position where he could sidehill more than come straight up.

Choice 2 is to drop down in elevation and to the side of the elk, in prep for thermals switching, and go through a slow play sequence. It has all the good components. A new cow the bull doesn’t know, eventually a bull which he won’t like, and soon a hot cow which he can’t resist.

I would be confident in going home with that bull.

 

[Maverick1]

@ElkNut1 - drop some wisdom!!!!!

 

[blackveltbowhunter]

It sounds like a opportunity to slip in and get a silent arrow in him. I would try to get to the best cover and as much to the side as possible to give some room for error if the wind gets weird. It sounds like the situation is already in range of the elks sniffer, so unless planning to back out going forward isn't going to hurt anything. I "think" based on your description I would probably error on the more south face, just to try and hold the wind as long as possible, but a lot of variables in that factor. The history of dealing with spooky, quiet elk, I would play my calls as a last resort, unless he gets vocal.

 

[K_pem]

With good wind and thermals in my favor it would be really hard not to attempt a sneak down the edge, get in between him and the herd (elevation wise) and let er' rip with enough cover that he can't see where the calls are coming from and/or have the caller start lightly raking until you can see that his attention has been gotten. At that distance I would think he would have no choice but to investigate provided he doesn't come unglued. If he is letting the raghorn hang with the cows unattended I would presume he thinks the pecking order has been established.

If that didn't work, then as previously mentioned, tossing in some new cow calls would certainly spike his interest.

I would not however call from behind, I've seen too many times bulls just round the herd up and push down the drainage hard.

 

[SleepyJones]

I wouldn't try to call the bulls cows away if there is no sign of a hot cow. I would get on the same level as the bull and either try a breeding sequence or slow play. The slow play is 'slow' but you should have enough time to pull it off. If that bull smelled some action that year already, he might come into cow calls, but if no response to the cow calling, bring in a bull and do some raking. I personally am not the best at spot and stalk and doubt I'd have enough time to get situated and pull that off (mind you, a guy doesn't get better without trying). The other option I would try is to come back early morning and see if they go back the way they came and set up an ambush.

 

[hereinaz]

There is 100% chance the bull lives if I do nothing. I would start sneaking in and get after it, there is enough time to start to try. Stop thinking, there is no perfect. That’s my mantra. And, I try to stop thinking about camp. Like Remi says, choose the best way not the easy way.

Clearly, calling is outside of the comfortable call given the situation, and I suck at it. There is practically no chance I can call the “right” bull in.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

If there is cover to make a move in front of the herd, I would probably just stay on the east side of the saddle so I am just under the horizon, side hill a ways, and then pop back up and see wherre the herd is. If I can do that and get in front of the herd enough, I would try to get down just a little lower than their elevation, and wait and see how things evolve from there. Hopefully the herd will continue to move south and above me slightly and I can watch the herd of cows move and then when the 6x6 moves close enough, give a quick call and get him stopped for the shot.

A lot of variables on cover and time there, but that would be my first idea.

 

[mad_angler]

So.. the herd is 400 feet lower than you in elevation. What is the distance?

As a scared rookie, I would back up and stay on my side of hte saddle. Then, I'd go NE for a bit and then go over the ridge and try to sneak towards the herd with the wind in my favor.

 

[Dos Perros]

Leave one dude behind. Other dude goes forth. Try to sneak in as a priority. The dude in back could make several successive raking sessions. Good chance the bull matches with the rake, giving you more opportunity to sneak in. Tough to tell how the cows will react. If you piss off the lead cow you're smoked either way.

 

[Acorn]

Could you provide a pin for the location? That might help others imagine the scenario better…

 

[Acorn]

In all seriousness, I would sneak down through the timber and try to stalk in on the bull with a crosswind, trying to approach in between the bull and his herd if possible. If the wind does switch when you’re in tight and the cows smell you, then throw out an aggressive bugle as a last resort.

 

[elkliver]

Hard to envision this without an actual hillside to look at.. if you drop in and get on the same horizontal plane as the elk the changing thermal may not affect you... keep in in mind that you may have thermals up or down the hillside but also a breeze/thermal up or down the canyon. From the basic description i would try and work cross wind. If you can see the bull, can you sneak in close without calling at all to start? It would be really tough to call that bull up the hill. but if you can get on a similar plane and then have calling partner stay back aways and do the calling.... and we all know that is when the cows will blow up and spoil the whole plan


Picking an actual hillside somewhere that you can provide a topo map or aerial for would be great. Maybe from a national park and then no one is getting a secret spot

 

[Coveyleader]

Circle, down drainage get in the crick where my thermals will most likely be heading hard down slope and make my move. No calling.

 

[Beendare]

Since we are all hypothesizing, I have had a lot of scenarios almost exactly like this one proposed. All during archery season...and all in a variety of units....some early/late...and some heavily hunted/ light hunting pressure.

I do think many guys bugle way too much and use it in any situation as a Hail Mary. ...and it hurts them more than helps.
Calling works but it's a bad idea to use it as a crutch in every situation.

Situationally; The norm for me is fairly heavily hunted public land units. This alone dictates some of my strategies as most of the time these elk are call shy especially further into the season. Add to that a lot of times I hunt early when they aren't as fired up. [just because I can't wait to get in the elk woods]

I have done subtle calling in similar situations but usually with a Decoy- and it has worked.

I have done a version of what some now call the slow play- I've been doing it for decades-calling very little and working it up to more aggression BUT only if the bull is aggressive towards me. In actuality, many times I can hear them just moving away keeping their distance which is typical of how these elk think. They like to maintain distance away from other bulls.

My calling depends a lot on the bulls reaction. I've called and they just sit there not responding....like they could care less. IME, it's been tough to call those herd bulls. Most of the elk I kill with calling are satellites as they are more inquisitive.

I've also had it where I challenge bugled and the herd bull rounded up his cows and got the heck out of there completely wrecking the opportunity. Wait- the internet experts say they will come to you. grin

If the bull is not bugling aggressively to start with in his herd, instead just sounding off periodically, he is doing that to maintain distance and keep track of the other potential herds/suitors. Being too aggressive right off the bat in that situation can push them out of there.

When a herd bull with cows is bedded and they are feeding, he is exhausted. If he could he would be out with those cows checking them and circulating. IME, An exhausted bull is less likely to come and check out a cow call...or come challenge a bugle. He might bugle back from his bed is about it.

A buddy and I killed 2 good 6 point satellites from a situation like this with the herd bull bedded----and the herd bull never got up until we went to collect our bulls. We took turns calling for each other, me switching to shooter after calling him his bull and the herd bull wouldn't get up. [he was pretty fired up too]

All that to say, from the initial post, the bull doesn't sound like he is that aggressive. He is tired. Thats 2 strikes against me calling.

Now maybe I visualized something that wasn't there in the initial post, but from the info provided, this was the long version of my comment;

I'm not calling but sneaking in.

 

[mad_angler]

...

All that to say, from the initial post, the bull doesn't sound like he is that aggressive. He is tired. That's 2 strikes against me calling.

Now maybe I visualized something that wasn't there in the initial post, but from the info provided, this was the long version of my comment;

I'm not calling but sneaking in.

As a newby, can you elaborate? Let's say the herd is 800 yards away and 400 feet lower than you. How exactly would you "sneak in"?

 

[Dos Perros]

Use terrain and vegetation to obscure your approach. It's not rocket surgery.

It's not that hard to get within 60 yards of an elk sneaking in. But if the closest elk is a cow, then you're betting that at some point that bull will come around and check that cow. Odds of detection go way up inside of 60 yards. You also need to have your head on a swivel for the elk you don't see.

 

[hibernation]

My calling depends a lot on the bulls reaction. I've called and they just sit there not responding....like they could care less. IME, it's been tough to call those herd bulls. Most of the elk I kill with calling are satellites as they are more inquisitive.

I've also had it where I challenge bugled and the herd bull rounded up his cows and got the heck out of there completely wrecking the opportunity.

I'm still pretty amateur when it comes to calling elk, but this tracks with my experience. Calling to a bull that wants to be left alone is very different than when they're all bugling back and forth already.

In this scenario, I'd either stalk in or back out for the morning. Probably try to move over to their side so that when the wind inevitably switches, you're not right above them.

Hard to say without seeing the lay of the land, but in some areas you need to honestly gauge if there's a reasonable amount of time to stalk in and do it well. If the best I can do is rush in on a low odds, hail mary situation, I might be better off watching them, backing out without spooking them, and have a starting point to locate them again way before first light. Unless it's the last day of the hunt or something like that, then obviously just go for it.