Something interesting happened with my down puffy

[optimusprime]

I recently purchased a Rab Electron jacket for cold glassing sessions. For those who don’t know, it’s a Pertex Quantum Pro jacket with 800 fill Nikwax water resistant down. It’s super warm and comfy. It has a wicked DWR that sheds all but heavy downpours.

I have been hunting late season archery in WA where temps are around 8-30’s during the daytime. Lots of hiking in 2 feet of snow and lots of sweat. I had on a Sitka Core LW t-shirt, Core LW hoodie, First Lite Klamath and Sitka Kelvin Active. I was sweating something fierce. I sat down for a 15 minute break and threw my puffy on. A little while later I noticed I was getting cold again. I looked at my Puffy and noticed it had began to flatten out! All I can figure is that the heat from my body was forcing the moisture into the down faster than the jacket could expel it and the hydrophobic down couldn’t handle it. I’ve heard of this happening when peoples clothes were soaked from rain first but didn’t think it would happen with just sweat build up. Interesting for sure.


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[NW307]

Rab makes great stuff but down will never be able to handle a lot of moisture pushed into it by you body heat. This is where synthetic insulation shines.

 

[optimusprime]

That’s what I’m starting to figure out. I can’t figure out how Alpinists wear this stuff and don’t die! Do they not sweat? I usually put my puffies on when I’m sweating my butt off and wanna keep some of that heat in but the sweat has to go somewhere.


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[Pigdog]

When it’s not raining I’ve always been fine as long as the down puffy is the outermost layer. If it looks like the conditions will require a shell I just pay the weight/bulk penalty and go synthetic.

 

[optimusprime]

I have a Cloudburst to go over my puffy but when I used it the other day, it was snowing a bit but my sweat flattened out my down. Might have to look at a Nunatak now lol.


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[Wrench]

The mountaineering crowd has some way cold temperatures to keep the moisture moving and uber dry air.

 

[NW307]

The high altitude down suit guys are usually not going fast enough to sweat. I agree the cold and dry air helps too. The fast and light guys climbing technical, usually lower elevation routes at speed almost all use synthetic puffys. I've been out of the game awhile but not that long ago you would have been considered crazy for taking down on a route that you could be rained on.

 

[5MilesBack]

I usually put my puffies on when I’m sweating my butt off and wanna keep some of that heat in but the sweat has to go somewhere.

If I'm sweating my butt off, the last thing I want is more insulation. I'd wait until you stop sweating so much to throw it on. Even if that's just slower walking for awhile. It also sounds like you had too many layers on to begin with to be sweating like that. Winter hunting is a fine line around the sweat zone. I try to wear the minimum starting out and then speed up to stay warm, and slow down to control the sweat level.

 

[optimusprime]

If I'm sweating my butt off, the last thing I want is more insulation. I'd wait until you stop sweating so much to throw it on. Even if that's just slower walking for awhile. It also sounds like you had too many layers on to begin with to be sweating like that. Winter hunting is a fine line around the sweat zone. I try to wear the minimum starting out and then speed up to stay warm, and slow down to control the sweat level.

Yeah that makes sense. I’m fairly new to cold weather hunting so I’m sort of figuring it out as I go. That’s the pitfalls of having such efficient clothing- I never felt too hot in all those layers but apparently I was just dying inside


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[andydwyer]

Was it humid? In my experience, moisture doesn't move through down like it does synthetics. Id suggest a lighter synthetic that uses Primaloft Gold or similar for those high energy times, and switch to the down when the sweat starts to dry. Even if you take the synthetic off before it's totally dry, it will still do its job in those higher output times.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Yeah that makes sense. I’m fairly new to cold weather hunting so I’m sort of figuring it out as I go. That’s the pitfalls of having such efficient clothing- I never felt too hot in all those layers but apparently I was just dying inside


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Layers, layers, layers. Shed'm when you are getting hot before you soak them out. I highly recommend the kuiu baselayer pants for active hunters purely because of the zip off 3/4 length design, it facilitates actually stopping for a min to strip or add a layer without taking off boots which in practicality is huge (I actually bought my hunting partner a pair so I didn't have to stand around for the boot on/off delays). I have no clue why no other company is on board with that setup. Upper layers there are tons of brands/options. Wear the thinnest that you can while moving hard to maintain temp w/o too hot.

Often in winter I have a thin long sleeve merino baselayer then a midweight fleece layer on when I'm moving, both are 1/4 or 1/2 zip which allows venting, also adjusting your headwear helps alot (winter hat on fully, fold up to expose ears, switch to a ball cap). When I stop the first insulation layer that goes on is a synthetic puffy. If its cold enough that I'm carrying a second puffy layer that one can be synthetic or down and goes on if I start getting chilled in that setup after initially cooling down. Long story short I never had only a down puffy.

 

[5MilesBack]

I highly recommend the kuiu baselayer pants for active hunters purely because of the zip off 3/4 length design, it facilitates actually stopping for a min to strip or add a layer without taking off boots which in practicality is huge (I actually bought my hunting partner a pair so I didn't have to stand around for the boot on/off delays).

I'd rather wear my thin merino base layers under my thin camo pants all the time, and carry insulated outer pants if needed, rather than be taking them off and putting them on all the time. If you were my partner I'd be long gone while you're messing around with taking base layers off. If my base layers are off........they aren't "on" to do what I expect them to do.......get the sweat away from my skin.

 

[ChrisAU]

I can take my zip off bottoms off in about 3 seconds. I don't drop my pants or take my boots off. Takes me longer to change out a top if I have my bino harness on lol. Even with temps near zero in the early mornings on my last elk hunt I usually wound up hiking in just FL corrugate guide pants, a FL wick 150 s/s top and a kuiu peloton 97 l/s. Bet your ass I wanted more than that at the start of the hike though. As soon as I started to feel warm at all I ditched all but what I described above.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I'd rather wear my thin merino base layers under my thin camo pants all the time, and carry insulated outer pants if needed, rather than be taking them off and putting them on all the time. If you were my partner I'd be long gone while you're messing around with taking base layers off. If my base layers are off........they aren't "on" to do what I expect them to do.......get the sweat away from my skin.

I don't feel the need for this, I happen to also run Kuiu for pants and with the hip vents my legs don't get sweaty and offer a good range of temp control based on exertion and outside temps. My thin layer is under my pants which take the chill off if cool out but as noted I don't need them for sweat in the warm times, I usually only adjust this layer once or twice a day (usually while glassing or such) to adjust for the 40F day/night temp swings, not adjusting on the fly all the time (but if I did its about as long as stopping for a piss). My puffy layer is also zipoff, I usually wear under my pants to let my pants take the abuse of the environment, again fast to strip as needed and these are basically on for morning and night glassing when really cold, otherwise usually to hot to wear in the day.

I can take my zip off bottoms off in about 3 seconds. I don't drop my pants or take my boots off. Takes me longer to change out a top if I have my bino harness on lol. Even with temps near zero in the early mornings on my last elk hunt I usually wound up hiking in just FL corrugate guide pants, a FL wick 150 s/s top and a kuiu peloton 97 l/s. Bet your ass I wanted more than that at the start of the hike though. As soon as I started to feel warm at all I ditched all but what I described above.

How are you removing your baselayer without dropping pants quick? Or are you talking an insulation layer rather than baselayer?

 

[ChrisAU]

How are you removing your baselayer without dropping pants quick? Or are you talking an insulation layer rather than baselayer?

Baselayers. I can unbutton pants (I don't wear a belt but do wear suspenders which keeps them up, FL corrugate guides), push the zipper to my knee or just past, then pull my pant leg up and zip them down to my boot.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

This is something I am always afraid of and why I still go back and forth with synthetic. I do think as other have said you can greatly reduce the risk of this by taking the proper precautions: slow down as you approach, do no put on down puffy right away and use your synthetic mid layer until you cool down and than put on the puffy.

 

[5MilesBack]

My thin layer is under my pants which take the chill off if cool out but as noted I don't need them for sweat in the warm times

My legs rarely ever get cold. If I'm stationary, my upper body is cold even in the low 70's......I'm always wearing a fleece jacket indoors. But as soon as I'm on the move at all, the furnace kicks on and into high gear and I sweat......no matter the temps. Since I'm always on the move while hunting, I want those base layers pulling the sweat off me.

 

[Low_Sky]

I recently purchased a Rab Electron jacket for cold glassing sessions. For those who don’t know, it’s a Pertex Quantum Pro jacket with 800 fill Nikwax water resistant down. It’s super warm and comfy. It has a wicked DWR that sheds all but heavy downpours.

I have been hunting late season archery in WA where temps are around 8-30’s during the daytime. Lots of hiking in 2 feet of snow and lots of sweat. I had on a Sitka Core LW t-shirt, Core LW hoodie, First Lite Klamath and Sitka Kelvin Active. I was sweating something fierce. I sat down for a 15 minute break and threw my puffy on. A little while later I noticed I was getting cold again. I looked at my Puffy and noticed it had began to flatten out! All I can figure is that the heat from my body was forcing the moisture into the down faster than the jacket could expel it and the hydrophobic down couldn’t handle it. I’ve heard of this happening when peoples clothes were soaked from rain first but didn’t think it would happen with just sweat build up. Interesting for sure.


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This is why my down puffy stays in town. If I’m outdoors and working hard, it’s synthetic puffies only. I don’t cold weather hunt much, but I’m a backcountry skier and work up a sweat climbing mountains, then put on layers for the ski down. Challenging test for a puffy garment and natural down fails.


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[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Baselayers. I can unbutton pants (I don't wear a belt but do wear suspenders which keeps them up, FL corrugate guides), push the zipper to my knee or just past, then pull my pant leg up and zip them down to my boot.

Huh interesting approach, I presume you do this due the suspenders?

I wear a belt so I just drop my outer layer to down to ankles, unzip the baselayer and just pull my pants back up. Never timed myself but certainly <1min if needed to just drop pack, pull those off and stuff into a pocket on the pack and put it back on.

Anyways the point is don't be that guy thats all "hey hold up I need to sit down and take my boots off to swap my baselayer" .

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

This is something I am always afraid of and why I still go back and forth with synthetic. I do think as other have said you can greatly reduce the risk of this by taking the proper precautions: slow down as you approach, do no put on down puffy right away and use your synthetic mid layer until you cool down and than put on the puffy.

Synthetic main puffy and when really cold add in a down one on top, 2 layers are more flexible than 1.