Spotters: Increased bang for the buck with increased price?

[hawkman71]

To clarify my thread title:

Within a brand (let's say Vortex), how much extra performance/quality are you getting for the buck in spotting scopes when looking at the D'back, Viper, and Razor lines? (~500, 1000, 1500 dollars)

I do understand or have experienced this in binoculars, although I believe my Vortex Vipers are as good as my dad's Swaros - or almost.

Maybe the experience is exactly the same in spotting scopes.
I'd LOVE to get an angled Razor with an 85 objective, LIKE to get a Viper, but could settle for a D'back if it was good enough.

Am I just wasting money with the D'back?
Who loves theirs?
85 obj or smaller size?

There seem to be a lot of deals on used D'backs - which could be good or bad.

*Mighta shoulda bought that Razor that recently sold on the classifieds here.
*Some Vanguards for sale here, too.

 

[X-file]

I’ve done tons of research. I want to get a spotter but don’t want to invest too heavily in it but don’t want to under purchase either. Sportsmans will occasionally run the gen1 85mm for 749 which is a great deal when it happens. But I thing the Athlon ares series is probably the best bang for the buck and is what I plan on getting when I am ready.
Now if want want the best bang for the buck overall in a large spotter, look at the Athlon Argos 85mm. You will lose some quality buy for less than $400, I don’t think it can be beat


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[Dos Perros]

How can you conclude Viper's are as good as Swaro's? I'd like to understand that.

 

[Touchdown88]

I bought a Viper HD spotting scope after a lot of research and loved it...

Until I looked through my Father-in-law's ATS Hd Swaro. Then I sold the Viper for a huge loss.

 

[Bailer]

I do understand or have experienced this in binoculars, although I believe my Vortex Vipers are as good as my dad's Swaros - or almost.

If you think vipers, which I’ve owned, are almost as good as swaros, you probably won’t appreciate a higher end spotter.

To me the difference is I can stay behind my 12el or my btx all day. The image is clear edge to edge, and the depth of field keeps multiple ridges in focus at the same time. I found a coues buck in December that I would not have seen with a lesser optic. I was looking into an ocotillo thicket around a mile away and caught movement at the very bottom 5 o’clock of my btx. The buck was on the next ridge closer and wouldn’t even have been in focus with a viper/diamondback etc…

That said, we don’t all use optics the same way. If you can swap back and forth with vipers and your dads swaros you could probably do the same with spotters in the same class.

 

[tdhanses]

The answer is yes if your honest with yourself but if you can talk your self into settling for lesser quality then no.

 

[nobody]

Ok, this answer will get convoluted, so bear with me.

First off, the important thing to remember is that the Diamondback spotter (and all others that compete directly with it) are miles ahead of the spotting scopes of 20-30 years ago. My dad ran a mid-90's Bushnell spotting scope from the 90's for a lot of years and it helped him fill many tags, and even the Diamondback line is leaps and bounds ahead of those. So if you're upgrading from something like that, then yes the Diamondback is fantastic.

The Viper line and by default everything else in that $800-$1000 range is the point of diminishing returns on spotting scopes. As a general rule (using vortex as the baseline), Crossfire to Diamondback is not quite double the price and gets over double the performance. Diamondback to Viper doubles price and I would objectively say doubles the performance. Viper to Razor almost doubles in price again, but only gains a small percentage increase, let's say 10%. Jumping from the Razor HD's to something like a Swarovski EL triples the cost, and I would say it's a low single digit performance increase. There's a point where $1 spent no longer equals at least a 1% increase, and in my experience, that occurs in binoculars at the $600-$800 mark and in spotting scopes at the +/- $1000 mark.

Now, it's important to note that I'm not saying the Viper is as good as the Swarovski (which personally, I feel Swarovski performance is 99% hype and status symbolism, but I'm just some random guy on the internet). What I am saying is that the performance gained per dollar spent no longer is linear at that point. When I say performance, I mean depth of field, edge to edge clarity, color fidelity/pop, low light performance, all the good stuff. The important thing is to look through everything available and determine where your eyes are happy and what percentage of time you will spend behind each piece of glass. Personally, I don't spend more than about 5% of my time behind a spotting scope, but I LIVE behind my binoculars. So I run high end binos and a mid-range spotting scope. This year, my mid-range spotter resolved a 2" cheater on a buck we spotted for my buddy at about 1200 yards. So no, it didn't hinder our success and the performance was way more than adequate.

You also have to be able to look through all the brands and be honest about what your eyes like without just listening to everybody talk about how "Swaro is best, Swaro is best, Swaro is best." There's lots of good glass out there, it's important to test it all so that you're happy with a high dollar investment.

Here is a video from the guys at Gohunt. Say what you want about their services, but Cody Nelson knows glass. He grew up a coues deer hunter in Arizona first and foremost, and has spent arguably more time behind glass than anybody out there. He does a great job at articulating the differences and is real enough and objective enough to admit that not everybody needs to spend 5 grand on a spotting scope to be successful.

 

[LaHunter]

In my opinion there is a certain threshold with a spotting scope to be useful for its intended purpose. If you aren’t at or above that threshold, it is less than worthless and very frustrating. I started out with a gen1 vortex razor 65mm spotter and it was pretty good, at or just above ‘my threshold’. I sold it and now have a 65mm Swaro std hd and am happy with it.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

You lost me at Vipers are almost as good as Swaros lmao. An important part of this equation is intended use. Are you using to size up whitetails at 300 yds or look at bullet holes at 100 yds? Then sure one of the vortex scopes is probably fine.

If you're using it to determine whether a coues has 3" or 4" eyeguards and 16" or 17" beams at 1100 yards then a high end spotter is extremely valuable.

 

[svivian]

You guys are brutal, let the guy think the vipers are as good as the swaros. I know my wallet wished i thought the same as him.

To the OP sound like you should just get the Viper spotting scope and you are here just to get a little validation on the purchase as we are all guilty of sometimes. There's a lot of factors you don't mention.
1. do you really have the means to purchase a swaro?
2. What binos are you using now. If I'm spending good money I'm getting the best binos I can afford
3. how often and in what conditions are you going to use a spotting scope.

Spotting scopes are fun at the range and on special hunts like a sheep tag or looking for trophy mule deer but for the average hunter you do not need top tier spotting scope for hunting purposes. I Own all swaro now and I can tell you that its rare the spotting scope comes out and when it does its for fun.

 

[Outcast2.0]

The Viper line and by default everything else in that $800-$1000 range is the point of diminishing returns on spotting scopes.

@nobody i really like how you laid that out. That makes a lot of sense. Not trying to hi-jack the thread from the OP, but what makes and models would you point around that 1k mark for spotter to get the best “bang for you buck”. What about that $6-800 for bhinos for “bang for you buck.”

 

[nobody]

@nobody i really like how you laid that out. That makes a lot of sense. Not trying to hi-jack the thread from the OP, but what makes and models would you point around that 1k mark for spotter to get the best “bang for you buck”. What about that $6-800 for bhinos for “bang for you buck.”

Honestly, it's just from tons of time behind tons of different tiers of glass from lots of manufacturers. Objectively, that's the point where optical performance's relationship to the dollar spent is not a 1:1 relationship. Lots of guys will tell you otherwise, but my rule of thumb is that those are the dollar amounts that you'll need to spend where your optics will no longer be the thing that keeps you from finding game. Is Viper glass equal to the Leica Noctovid glass? Absolutely not. But if you can get to that price point, ish, you'll be into something that won't hang right with the big dogs but also won't be detrimental to your hunting experience. Your clarity will be really good, not great. Your edge to edge clarity will be solid, not perfect. It's not going to be the last glass you'll ever buy (probably), but those price brackets will suit you well for many years to come.

Let me just say this, glassing has more to do with technique than with with how much money you spend on your optics. Buy the best glass you can, put them on a quality tripod with a good head, and SLOW THE FREAK DOWN. You'll find more game with a good fluid head on a sturdy tripod with a pair of Maven C.2's than the guy packing Leica's or Zeiss or Swaro and just hand holding and looking hap-hazardly and randomly.

 

[freddyG]

I agree with the above posters that said spotters are just not used much, or even needed. Just put that money towards better binocs. I looked through a viper spotter for half a day, and would never own one.

 

[pc3]

To clarify my thread title:

Within a brand (let's say Vortex), how much extra performance/quality are you getting for the buck in spotting scopes when looking at the D'back, Viper, and Razor lines? (~500, 1000, 1500 dollars)

I do understand or have experienced this in binoculars, although I believe my Vortex Vipers are as good as my dad's Swaros - or almost.

Maybe the experience is exactly the same in spotting scopes.
I'd LOVE to get an angled Razor with an 85 objective, LIKE to get a Viper, but could settle for a D'back if it was good enough.

Am I just wasting money with the D'back?
Who loves theirs?
85 obj or smaller size?

There seem to be a lot of deals on used D'backs - which could be good or bad.

*Mighta shoulda bought that Razor that recently sold on the classifieds here.
*Some Vanguards for sale here, too.

My son has a Hawke spotter, bvery good for the money.

I think the Meopta S2 represents the best compromise between dollars spent and glass quality, law of diminishing returns is truly prevalent from this spotter on up. Particularly if you can get one on special.

 

[JGRaider]

I've got the straight S2 with 20-70x eyepiece. It is a phenomenal spotter. I just don't use it much anymore and would make someone a great deal on it if interested.

 

[LostInIdaho]

I've got the straight S2 with 20-70x eyepiece. It is a phenomenal spotter. I just don't use it much anymore and would make someone a great deal on it if interested.

You had me at Meopta. What you asking?

 

[Outcast2.0]

I've got the straight S2 with 20-70x eyepiece. It is a phenomenal spotter. I just don't use it much anymore and would make someone a great deal on it if interested.

I may be interested if lost doesn’t want it.

 

[JGRaider]

It is in excellent condition, and has always worn a Cabelas Instinct form fitting cover (Meopta made the Instinct for Cabelas, as you know, and it fits perfectly for either one). Comes with box, covers, everything when it was new. I'd probably ask about $1850 shipped or so.

 

[realunlucky]

It is in excellent condition, and has always worn a Cabelas Instinct form fitting cover (Meopta made the Instinct for Cabelas, as you know, and it fits perfectly for either one). Comes with box, covers, everything when it was new. I'd probably ask about $1850 shipped or so.

Take buying and selling to PM or classified section

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[jaredg]

That's a helluva deal on the Meo. I gave my mom the angled version of that setup. She loves it. It's all she will ever need to watch deer on the ridge. But I gave it to her after I bought my BTX 95. Once you look thru something like that, you can't go back.