Spotting Scopes and Growth Rings

[Dust1n]

I have the option of getting a Vortex Viper 15x45x60 or the Vortex Viper 20x60x80 (no other options)

I was wondering how far away you can HONESTLY count growth rings from both spotters.

I know bigger is better but Weight and Bulkiness is being taken into consideration and for how big the 80m, I think it’s worth going with the 60m for the weight alone.

I own a compact Kowa spotter but I don’t think it will shine where I’m taking it with the zoom and objective lens being limited

 

[EastMT]

There are a lot of variables to that question, full sunshine and heat waves? Dark clouds with a smaller spotter? A little shake in the tripod with wind? Are the rings light or dark? Are you above and behind them counting the back side?

The cheaper scopes will struggle, I used an 85mm vortex Razor my first sheep hunt, mainly due to the ExpertVoice price. It worked fine but obviously there are better choices. By using a smaller or non alpha you def cut the range significantly. In a perfect world we’d all be carrying a 95mm Swaro, but that’s not happening for me either.

I’d say early morning when it’s perfectly clear, no wind shake, you may be able to count them at 3-400 IF they are visible and if the false ones don’t throw you off. I will say that judging full curl and rings is one of the most stressful things in the hunting world, worse than calling every moose you see 49” haha. And on top of that half the time there can be 2 biologists disagreeing with the rings at the check in, so if it’s borderline, which way are they going to call it?

For this reason I fell in love with goat hunting, so much less stress!

Your best bet is to not decide to pull the trigger on rings alone, make sure it’s legal in several ways (I’m using Alaska laws here) and last I looked there were 3 ways to judge legal, check them all off if possible unless you are an expert in rings. Look at as many horns up close and personal as possible, ADFG displays, etc.

 

[Dust1n]

There are a lot of variables to that question, full sunshine and heat waves? Dark clouds with a smaller spotter? A little shake in the tripod with wind? Are the rings light or dark? Are you above and behind them counting the back side?

The cheaper scopes will struggle, I used an 85mm vortex Razor my first sheep hunt, mainly due to the ExpertVoice price. It worked fine but obviously there are better choices. By using a smaller or non alpha you def cut the range significantly. In a perfect world we’d all be carrying a 95mm Swaro, but that’s not happening for me either.

I’d say early morning when it’s perfectly clear, no wind shake, you may be able to count them at 3-400 IF they are visible and if the false ones don’t throw you off. I will say that judging full curl and rings is one of the most stressful things in the hunting world, worse than calling every moose you see 49” haha. And on top of that half the time there can be 2 biologists disagreeing with the rings at the check in, so if it’s borderline, which way are they going to call it?

For this reason I fell in love with goat hunting, so much less stress!

Your best bet is to not decide to pull the trigger on rings alone, make sure it’s legal in several ways (I’m using Alaska laws here) and last I looked there were 3 ways to judge legal, check them all off if possible unless you are an expert in rings. Look at as many horns up close and personal as possible, ADFG displays, etc.

This will be on an Albertan Bighorn Hunt where yet just needs to be 4/5 Curl but I’m still curious too see how these vortex vipers hold up on counting rings. (Future Hunts)

 

[Ram94]

This will be on an Albertan Bighorn Hunt where yet just needs to be 4/5 Curl but I’m still curious too see how these vortex vipers hold up on counting rings. (Future Hunts)

Hey Dustin,

Fellow Albertan here. I had been using the 80mm Viper for a few years before grabbing an Athlon Ares 65mm. The difference is huge. That Viper is not usable past about 45x anyways and it's about double the size and weight. I would suggest either sticking with your Kowa or try to find a 65mm Razor or something similar. (I had the opportunity to compare the Ares side by side with a few different scopes before deciding. Thread is on here somewhere)

Good luck!

 

[Rackmastr]

I counted rings on my first stone sheep with a small Nikon scope at 300 yards. It wasnt ideal, but it worked for the purposes. It was a Nikon 13-30x50. Def not the best option for stone sheep hunting but ended up being ok.

This year I shot a stone on age and originally started counting rings at 750-800 yards. We closed the distance to 300ish and made the final call. There was intermittent snow coming and going which made it tough at times though. I have a non-HD Swaro STS 65 on that trip.

 

[212pilot]

I had a Vortex Viper HD 15-40 x 60 a number of years ago. I wasn’t very impressed with the clarity or low light ability so ultimately decided to sell it. Best of luck with your hunt!

 

[BC Alpine Hunter]

Hi Dust1n,

Like others have said; there are many factors and variables to give a clear (no pun intended) answer to your question. We all have to start somewhere in the “optics” department. I started with a similar quality 65mm spotter as the one you mention. It served me great for many years hunting mule deer and into my first successful stone sheep hunt where I was able to clearly age my ram from 200 yards with ideal weather conditions. Then came a hunt where I had to walk away from a bighorn in a GOS area that I just couldn’t make the call. I watched him from 340 yards for 4 hours and through my spotter I just couldn’t determine where his lamb tips ended with the snow/ brown background. That was the first time that I wish I had better glass as it may have costed me a bighorn ram.

To answer your question; I would say the Viper will be good inside 300 yards with ideal light conditions. If your comfortable with having to possibly walk away from a potentially legal ram due to optic quality, then the Viper is a good scope for the price.

Good luck on your hunt. That is some of the most beautiful country on the continent you will be in.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

To the OP, which model of Kowa spotting scope do you have?

Don't overlook skill level when determining age. Even then don't expect 100%. You can have 5 experts age a ram, horns in hand. You will likely get 2+ answers on the age.

Guidance received from a friend who guides for sheep: If you are trying to make a ram legal, move on as it is likely not a legal ram. Doesn't matter if it is curl length, brooming, or rings.

 

[Snyd]

Buy the best high quality scope you can afford that fits the bill for you as far a size and weight, also consider the tripod. Bigger scope requries bigger tripod.

If you ever get in conditions where you can actually count rings accurately then you'll probably already know he's a legal ram. Heck, I've seen 3 F&G bios disagree on ring count/age and they were all holding the horns in hand!

Maybe some guys have been in a situation where they pulled the trigger based only on ring count. I'd not do it. I got too close to killing a "gotcha ram" once. I figured him as full curl. He was 7, F&G bio called full curl. I think another bio could have called him not.

After that I always looked for a "no brainer shoot that sucker!!!" Ram

have fun!!

 

[Blockcaver]

Wet rings show up better than dry rings. Early before the heat waves makes for better glassing. Lots of variables. Best thing in my experience is a few strategic phone scope photos you can enlarge and really study versus just looking in the scope at less than optimal angles and often a moving horn.

 

[Jimss]

I bought an almost new Swaro a few years ago for almost 1/2 the price of a new one. I would consider an almost new Swaro before considering anything else.

 

[ColeyG]

With my 85mm Razor I need to be within 500 yards to count rings in "average" conditions. As has been stated, lots of things affect your ability to see well in sheep country that don't have anything to do with the quality of the scope. 300 yards is much better than 500. Make them legal two ways before pulling the trigger is some of the best advice I've received.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

Man if I could convince anyone to save a year longer and upgrade their spotter to a Swaro this discussion would be moot. The difference in a 60X Swaro vs an 80X Vortex is so much clearer in the former that any other option seems like wasting money on lessor optics performance. I love my Vortex HD razor rifle scope but spotters are a technical piece of kit that IMO should be invested in upfront..and we all have to heal from the pain of cost of swaro products, but WAY worth it when it counts. If you're hoping to count rings farther and clearer, buy a swaro spotter.

 

[mxgust]

For those with swaro scopes do you ever feel handicapped with the 65mm objective? Is it 80mm (or 95) or bust? Or do you feel you can adequately judge with the smaller scope?

 

[BBob]

For those with swaro scopes do you ever feel handicapped with the 65mm objective? Is it 80mm (or 95) or bust? Or do you feel you can adequately judge with the smaller scope?

In good light and air the smaller almost doesn't matter (almost) but when the air starts getting bad the larger start to shine. In bad air you can always get more usable magnification out of the larger objective. I own or have owned both 65 and 80 HD's and the same with 25-50 and 20-60 eyepieces. The X series are even better but weigh more than the S series scopes.

I always weighed out my total weight, total distance, room in pack and difficulty to get there in deciding what I take.

 

[mxgust]

In good light and air the smaller almost doesn't matter (almost) but when the air starts getting bad the larger start to shine. In bad air you can always get more usable magnification out of the larger objective. I own or have owned both 65 and 80 HD's and the same with 25-50 and 20-60 eyepieces. The X series are even better but weigh more than the S series scopes.

I always weighed out my total weight, total distance, room in pack and difficulty to get there in deciding what I take.

Thank you, I’m considering one. That’s really helpful

 

[Jimbob]

My Cabelas krotos 15-45 x 65 has been on three stone sheep hunts, all three resulted in a dead ram.

First hunt, 300 yds, I counted rings at 9:00 am. Stayed on the bedded ram and when the afternoon heat waves came in I couldn't count rings. Then it got overcast and I could count rings again. Later afternoon, when he stood up I shot him.

Second hunt, counted rings on a ram at 150 yds, only 7 years old. Possibly an 8th ring but I could not see it (would a quality 60x have been able to spot an 8th ring tucked close to the fur?). An hour later, a ram came over the rise and straight at us. I used my binos to age him and my son shot him at 56 yds.

Thrid hunt, we got into a band of rams at 550 yds and my spotter could not count rings, slight heat haze had already started. We stayed on the rams until they got up to feed then we made a move and closed distance at 320 yds. At that distance, I aged the ram when he was up feeding and my friend shot it.

I wish I had a Swaro with 60x zoom, maybe one day. Until then I will still hunt my ass off and use what I can afford.

 

[Bubblehide]

Rent a Swarro if you can't purchase, there is a sponser that rents gear

 

[Dust1n]

Sounds like an awesome Idea! Thanks