Stone Glacier's Grumman Goose Down Jacket Review

[The Ri Guy]

This is some good banter that hopefully also helps some others. So...
I had the same concern as you as far as Quix-down versus the hyperdry. I know that both use nano tech for the process to treat the down. I will try to find some testing or more info to get some comparisons.

Although no hard evidence is presented in the following link, this was the most I could find online about Hyperdry before I decided to purchase: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/91288/ It came direct from Allied feather, who I assume SG sourced from as the HyperDry is their product.

In addition, I found the information in this article (https://gizmodo.com/we-tested-waterproof-down-by-jumping-in-a-frozen-lake-1694953456) specifically about what the IDFTL standards require, to be enlightening and it helped alleviate any fears I had. The fact that the standards require down to withstand a 40 minute soak test (while retaining loft), and the fact that Allied Down works closely with IDFTL (according to the first link) made me feel confident in my purchase.

Again, in reality, when are we ever going to be soaked in water for 40+ minutes in a down jacket while hunting? I think whoever finds themselves in that type of situation is in way deeper than they were prepared for.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

So did some emailing and had this emailed to me. Now, first this came from KUIU, so obviously they are trying to prove quix-down is better, but this test only shows Allied's down per the IDFTL lab. The message said Allied came in second place.

https://www.kuiu.com/on/demandware....wb2134082/images/down-page/PDF/Allied_new.pdf

Either way we are geeking out now, but either jacket is going to work amazing in wet conditions. At this point I really don't see a reason to use synthetic in wet conditions anymore. Many guides in Alaska are using treated down sleeping bags and jackets with great results.

With that said I will be selling my Super Down Pro to give the SG puffy a try.

 

[The Ri Guy]

https://www.kuiu.com/on/demandware....wb2134082/images/down-page/PDF/Allied_new.pdf

Cool data, thanks for sharing!

If I'm reading that graph correctly, neither the Allied HyperDry nor the Toray QuixDown started to lose loft until ~250 minutes (~4 hours & 10 minutes) of sitting atop the water. After ~318 minutes (~5 hours & 18 minutes), neither is going to keep you warm as they've both become completely saturated. Both had 100% loft lossage within 28 minutes of each other according to the X-Axis. I think it's really a moot point of whose down is "better" when you consider those points, the differentiating variable really then becomes fill weight.

I am guessing that test was for equal fill weights, when in reality the SG has more fill than both the Ultra and Super. One has to imagine that would therefore bring the two closer into alignment on time to 100% loft loss, and maybe even help the SG pull ahead? All of that data is also completely independent of the shells used and DWR's applied to them. Hard to guess what the real time to start losing loft (and time to losing 100% loft) actually is in real world applications.

If it came down to a true survival situation, I think you'd need to consider a synthetic option just in-case, i.e. solo float-hunt in Alaska. However, I think it's plenty safe to assume based on all the data we've traded that any of these treated-down jackets will perform better than most of us expect. Especially for the average day hunter or those who aren't getting hours out from their truck and civilization.

Hope some others find this data useful!

 

[Ryan Avery]

Have you guys ever had a down jacket wet out on you? If so how were you using it when it happened?

 

[tlkaetz]

Have you guys ever had a down jacket wet out on you? If so how were you using it when it happened?

Following this as well...

 

[The Ri Guy]

Have you guys ever had a down jacket wet out on you? If so how were you using it when it happened?

I have not had a down product wet out on me.

Admittedly, I never used a down product prior to the introduction of the Kuiu Ultra. Before then I stuck solely to fleece and wool.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Have you guys ever had a down jacket wet out on you? If so how were you using it when it happened?

Ryan, I have never had a down jacket wet out, but addmitatly I have never worn one in extremely wet conditions. I have worn them in rain and I just put a light weight rain shell to protect it.

I Have had a Western Mountaineering bag wet out but not completely and the next day was sunny and I hung it over a tree and it was dry and lofty by the afternoon. Note: Western Mountaineering are awesome but do not use treated down.

 

[Justin_the_EDG]

I am still looking for "THE" puffy for 90% of my hunting. I just ordered this one. I will post up my thoughts when I get some miles on it. Oh, and don't till Tanya you about this post. She's about ready to make me sleep outside with my other puffy's

I know you've been a proponent lately of the SKRE Ptarmigan, I'd be very interested to see your thoughts of the pros and cons between these 2 jackets if you do get a Grumman in hand.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I know you've been a proponent lately of the SKRE Ptarmigan, I'd be very interested to see your thoughts of the pros and cons between these 2 jackets if you do get a Grumman in hand.

I should have a Grumman next week. That SKRE is a nice jacket. I am always looking for lighter and warmer I can definitely compare them.


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[Ryan Avery]

I've had two down jackets wet out on me. Both the same way on a hunt I do multiple times every year with a big climb through brush in the dark. I had on a base layer and a fleece layer a Sitka Core heavyweight hoody the next time a First lite Klamath hoody. Both times I hiked in a downpour before daylight. It was too hot to put on a puffy or a shell. The fleece was totally saturated with water. When daylight came I started hunting and put on the puffy and a shell moving slower I was cooling down. But I was still moving. Heating up quickly and feeling better I kept hunting. Around noon with the day warming up I took off my layers and noticed the down jacket a OR Transcendent Down jacket was damn near flat, no loft. No being the smartest person last year I did the same thing with the Kuiu super down ultra. While the down was not totally saturated the insulation was definitely comprised. My guess is my body heat forced the moisture through the jacket. My next trip in I just wore my light baselayer and a very lightweight shell with pit zips. Worked much better but I will rip this shell within a few trips. I not trying to knock down at all or prove a point. I have never had down fail on me outside of these two times and It will still be my first choice even though I do most of my hunting in a very wet environment. But this scenario is probably one of the worst ways to use a down jacket. An educated person would use synthetic insulation

 

[1shotgear]

Have you guys ever had a down jacket wet out on you? If so how were you using it when it happened?

Just a quick story from this weekend to up date on the jacket for you guys. We took it ice fishing again this last weekend but we got some bigger lake trout and when we got them I had to put my hand down the hole to scoop them out. I had to do this two times with two bigger fish both times going to my elbow to grab the fish. I didn't role up the sleeve I only took off my gloves so I could test this exact thing. The outside temp was about 15 degrees with about a 5 to 10 mph wind. The water never broke through the jackets outer layer and I was able to stay out for three more hours until we called it for the day. Still in love with this jacket and can't wait to try it out for the up coming 2019 hunting season.

Here are some photos from this weekend showing me and some of the 1 Shot Gear team on the trip this last weekend. Sorry they are fishing photos on a hunting forum but we had to try out the jackets this time of year some how.

 

[MtnMuley]

Scott, you've been great with me and I truly appreciate you being one of the good guys. I can't value sticking your arm down to your elbow in an ice hole for a moment as being anywhere what Ryan just described. I'm not doubting for a second with your reviews and other great things I've heard about the new SG down puffy. The hardest part is for me to grasp the possibilities of encountering what Ryan did (which I certainly will at some point while wearing a down puffy), and yet justifying why I want to keep on buying the best down ones instead of switching to a synthetic full time. Shame on SG for not building a synthetic too. LOL

 

[doverpack12]

I should have a Grumman next week. That SKRE is a nice jacket. I am always looking for lighter and warmer I can definitely compare them.


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Ryan I’m particularly interested in this comparison as well and specifically how you feel the two jackets differ when fully zipped but hold off. The way the SKrE is sewn the hood is independent from the zipper which is not common among jackets I own but I find it to be a big advantage because often I don’t utilize the full zip or warmth to avoid the hood.

 

[PathFinder]

Are the baffles boxed or sewn through?

 

[Kotaman]

I've had two down jackets wet out on me. Both the same way on a hunt I do multiple times every year with a big climb through brush in the dark. I had on a base layer and a fleece layer a Sitka Core heavyweight hoody the next time a First lite Klamath hoody. Both times I hiked in a downpour before daylight. It was too hot to put on a puffy or a shell. The fleece was totally saturated with water. When daylight came I started hunting and put on the puffy and a shell moving slower I was cooling down. But I was still moving. Heating up quickly and feeling better I kept hunting. Around noon with the day warming up I took off my layers and noticed the down jacket a OR Transcendent Down jacket was damn near flat, no loft. No being the smartest person last year I did the same thing with the Kuiu super down ultra. While the down was not totally saturated the insulation was definitely comprised. My guess is my body heat forced the moisture through the jacket. My next trip in I just wore my light baselayer and a very lightweight shell with pit zips. Worked much better but I will rip this shell within a few trips. I not trying to knock down at all or prove a point. I have never had down fail on me outside of these two times and It will still be my first choice even though I do most of my hunting in a very wet environment. But this scenario is probably one of the worst ways to use a down jacket. An educated person would use synthetic insulation

Correct...I absolutely cannot hike in a down jacket period. Every time I do/have I experience your same results and I'm pissed at myself for doing so. Mine have been on sheep hunts where I was glassing, thought I'd make a short move and ended up going further than expected. I still use down on an occasion, but try really hard not to hike in regardless of the conditions. Heck, I've wetted out my down Kryptek jacket coyote hunting in minus 20! I JUST CAN'T HIKE IN DOWN. Great for sitting in glassing BAD for moving. On the other hand I can pretty much hike all day in the right synthetic puffy and the moisture migrates right to the outside of it. For a true "sit and glass" puffy, I'll take the down everytime. If I'm going to be mobile at all in cooler temps, I'll go synthetic.

With that said, as much as I love the concept of the SG Puffy, I can't get past the astronaut look.

 

[MuleyFever]

Im no astronaut so unless they make it in another color it’s not for me. Sounds like a good piece.

 

[1shotgear]

Are the baffles boxed or sewn through?

To answer your question the baffles are sewn threw. The down never spreads out or gets compressed for cold spots.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Regardless of color, the things I have read this jacket seems to shed water and wind better than others. After SG posted a magnified cross section of the Pertex fabric I understand why.

This is a jacket that I plan to wear for hunting and around town so I much would rather have the grey color than camo.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Boom! my SG order is placed. Excited to get it and compare it to the KUIU super down pro.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Boom! my SG order is placed. Excited to get it and compare it to the KUIU super down pro.

First impression of the Grumman down jacket is extremely light, warm and comfortable. The Pertex fabric is actually soft to the touch and not noisy; however, it does have much more shine then my Super down Pro. It does seem a hair warmer as I was wearing both jackets outside last night. I thought the hood didn't fit as well as the super down pro as the back draw cord ran across the ears and was kinda annoying. I move the cord above and below my ears which felt a little better, but still didn't seem right.

I think the main thing to consider when comparing these two jacekts is the Grumman is a no frills jacket meant to keep you warm while being extremely light. The Superdown pro is feature rich with adjustable waist, wrist and hood. Has chest zip pocket and pit zips. Now one could agrue you don't need that on a puffy jacket. Also the Superdown Pro has 30D face fabric and it was significantly thicker. Only time will tell how well the 15D pertex fabric holds up to how its advertised.

One thing to note, I have a 42" chest and have both jackets in Large and the Superdown Pro feels a little more comfy in the arm pit and chest area as it seems to be cut with a bit more room.