Stop the wolf....

[Okhotnik]

BS. I’m surrounded by millions of acres of wilderness, that has had wolves for decades now. We hunt elk with easy to get/OTC tags with long seasons, and ridiculously high success rates. The sky is not falling. Elk behavior has changed, and there are some localized herd number drops. Overall, elk are thriving throughout the west, including areas with strong wolf populations. I think people have gotten lazy, and social media has made elk hunting seem easier than reality.


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wow.
a lot of misinformation in your post

Is this true for Washington, Oregon where they can't manage their wolf population and I N Idaho?

Like the guy who lives in Southern California who walks outside his house in the morning in December and sees it is 75 degrees and sunny and thinks to himself that it must be the same weather in NW. Wyoming

pretty silly response

 

[Deadfall]

Hey yall. New to this sight. A bit of backstory on me. I hunt all over the west, live in montana. Been guiding over a decade. Quit more then one high paying job because it interfered with hunting. I guide in Bob marshall here in montana. All the time I hear folks talking about all killing wolves do. When first introduced to west states, that was very true, until elk adjusted. The problem I see now is 2 fold from 2 separate predators.

1. Wolves aren't killing like they used too now that ungalates have adjusted. However, wolves are stressing the herds which is causing a lack of breed back. I.e. less babies being born in spring.

2. Ye ol grizz is doing most killing. In spring when mama is in middle of calving and immobile bears are feasting on baby and mama.

These are personal observations I've made with my own eyes and in different states.

I've long wondered why folks dont talk about this combination of ungalate depredation. It's not just elk this happening too.

 

[Wrench]

Those of you who say that your area hasn't seen a big decline in elk numbers, how far between summer and winter range?

I recall the galitan hunts years back where 10's of thousands of elk would migrate many miles.

Here in the NW corner the migration of summer to rut to winter range is about 5 miles on the high end and average of about 1 mile. We don't have great expanses of open country to let our herds roam, they end up in a canyon or on a ridge.....both will be infested with trees and chest deep snow.

Super easy picking on elk.

I will say that the numbers of elk close to town and in town has EXPLODED in the last few years, and wdfw also had a telemetry rig set up at a local high school because they had collared wolves not more than 1000 yards out.

The wolf most certainly has made a big impact on life in Idaho. 10 years ago in the selway I ran into an outfitter who started tearing up when I asked him how they are affecting him as he replyed that he historically killed 30 bulls a year and in the last 3 years hasn't killed one. Has not seen one this year......

That situation has spread.....

Better hope it doesn't happen to your area.

 

[mtwarden]

regardless how you feel about reintroduction (or wolves in general), an initiative is NOT the way to handle it- there is no public meetings, no testimony (expert or otherwise), no compromises- just pure political drivel

ask California how no lion hunting is working out? the wildlife agencies have their hands tied and they shouldn't

 

[Okhotnik]

Hey yall. New to this sight. A bit of backstory on me. I hunt all over the west, live in montana. Been guiding over a decade. Quit more then one high paying job because it interfered with hunting. I guide in Bob marshall here in montana. All the time I hear folks talking about all killing wolves do. When first introduced to west states, that was very true, until elk adjusted. The problem I see now is 2 fold from 2 separate predators.

1. Wolves aren't killing like they used too now that ungalates have adjusted. However, wolves are stressing the herds which is causing a lack of breed back. I.e. less babies being born in spring.

2. Ye ol grizz is doing most killing. In spring when mama is in middle of calving and immobile bears are feasting on baby and mama.

These are personal observations I've made with my own eyes and in different states.

I've long wondered why folks dont talk about this combination of ungalate depredation. It's not just elk this happening too.

Do grizzlies reproduce at the same rate of wolves?

The grizzlies, because of no management , certainly play a role too. Remember companies like Patagonia helped shut down predator management

 

[kiddogy]

Do grizzlies reproduce at the same rate of wolves?

The grizzlies, because of no management , certainly play a role too. Remember companies like Patagonia helped shut down predator management

no. they do not.

 

[Deadfall]

No they dont. They've been left alone long enough however, that in montana they are completely out of control. Especially along the front from Lincoln north.
Just saying, wolves are not the only problem

 

[Okhotnik]

Of course reproduce at much higher rates tan bears and mountain lions and impossible to control their numbers without trapping and arial shooting and in some cases poisoning . Thats the big difference the wolf worshippers ignore.

 

[Okhotnik]

No they dont. They've been left alone long enough however, that in montana they are completely out of control. Especially along the front from Lincoln north.
Just saying, wolves are not the only problem

I completely agree

 

[Deadfall]

Maybe when the wolves are introduced into colorado, where a larger contingent from the other side of this conversation live. The wolves start crushing the heads of their beloved pets, then perhaps we will see more line up for change.

 

[wyosam]

wow.
a lot of misinformation in your post

Is this true for Washington, Oregon where they can't manage their wolf population and I N Idaho?

Like the guy who lives in Southern California who walks outside his house in the morning in December and sees it is 75 degrees and sunny and thinks to himself that it must be the same weather in NW. Wyoming

pretty silly response

Sounds like a problem for your state game agency. We have a ton of wolves. We’re in the “recovery zone”, at least in some of the areas I hunt, and we have limited hunting in that zone. Rest of the state can shoot them like coyotes, which is why it took so long to get a hunting season on them here. If your state can’t manage for both wolves and elk, complain to them. There has to be more at play than just wolves, because some areas do just fine with wolves in high density and maintain great elk herds. Others don’t. Wolves aren’t hungrier in one place than another.


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[SWOHTR]

Elk and wolves have the same relationship in every habitat where they cross. CO is not the same as MT, ID, WY, however. There is no empty space on the CO map large enough that wolves can be wolves without overlapping people, livestock, pets and every other conflict that will get them killed. Why bring wolves here to see them killed?Wolves visit this state regularly, under their own wild auspices. But they don't stay. I'm confident wild wolves know where is good for them better than "animal rights advocates," who would see them killed in the name of saving them.

At first I read this and thought it was the epitome of “we can have wolves, but not in my back yard!”

Re-read it and I get your point now.

 

[Deadfall]

Animal rights activists, that's who. As we all know, they care not about animals at all

 

[Deadfall]

I believe the wolf in colorado process has already been run through and is a go. According to my uncle anyway. Animal rights folk wont ever learn.

It's a harsh world

 

[Beendare]

I have yet to hear a rebuttal from the wolf lovers as to why we don't just use hunters to manage Deer/Elk populations?

Hunters and license fees are a big net positive vs. the millions of $$ and resources currently WASTED because of wolves in courts, government, ranchers, etc.

The quasi ecologists try to baffle you with BS. Wouldn't food on the table of families...at a big net positive to the economy with no Reparation $$ to ranchers....and no HUGE $$$'s spent on attorneys be a positive?

Look, these folks think wolves are cool.....and are they are willing to TRASH hunters, ranchers, wildlife depts and the economy just to get a fleeting glimpse of them in the woods. These quasi wildlife hacks need to be exposed for what they are....this disaster could have been prevented....and all of that wasted $$ could have gone towards habitat.


...

 

[87TT]

If the wolves ate marijuana they wouldn't stand for it.

 

[Mossy]

Not just elk....I feel they have made a huge impact on the mulies I hunt(hunted). So much so last year was my last time.

 

[S.Clancy]

Wolves must also be developing land on critical winter range...

 

[sneaky]

Wolves must also be developing land on critical winter range...

That's another reason why they don't need to be brought into Colorado. Talk about putting the squeeze on deer and elk. Pick your poison. Get hit by a car, or eaten alive.

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[Okhotnik]

Sounds like a problem for your state game agency. We have a ton of wolves. We’re in the “recovery zone”, at least in some of the areas I hunt, and we have limited hunting in that zone. Rest of the state can shoot them like coyotes, which is why it took so long to get a hunting season on them here. If your state can’t manage for both wolves and elk, complain to them. There has to be more at play than just wolves, because some areas do just fine with wolves in high density and maintain great elk herds. Others don’t. Wolves aren’t hungrier in one place than another.


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Game agencies are controlled by anti hunting progressives and comparing Wyoming with Washington,

Sounds like a problem for your state game agency. We have a ton of wolves. We’re in the “recovery zone”, at least in some of the areas I hunt, and we have limited hunting in that zone. Rest of the state can shoot them like coyotes, which is why it took so long to get a hunting season on them here. If your state can’t manage for both wolves and elk, complain to them. There has to be more at play than just wolves, because some areas do just fine with wolves in high density and maintain great elk herds. Others don’t. Wolves aren’t hungrier in one place than another.


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Did you manage to look at the population of humans in Wyoming vs Washington, Colorado , Oregon , Wisconsin etc vs wolf population and available land?

Sad that some lack the intellect to look at all the data.Go ahead and worship your wolves in Wyoming where you can shoot , trap, use poison and arial shooting. And the elk have much more escapement there. The wolves in the above states drive the mule deer, elk down to the ranches, while killing livestock, and remain around the ranches , wintering ranges and continue to kill elk, deer and livestock because they have no fear of humans.