Student debt "Crisis"

[Okhotnik]

Who said I hired them?

We had an operation recently at work at a city 350 miles from home office. We had to be there next day. I gave the office reporting instructions. My 29 year old female employee, who was very bright with computers and has a CPA, said she would not go and not drive there because too far away. The position ( law enforcement agent) she had required frequent unannounced travel requirements all over the US and sometimes foreign travel.

She has already lost her duty carry pistol too. Maybe I didn’t give her enough hugs as a supervisor?

So much for the great innovative ideas of her generation.

 

[BluMtn]

I know in Washington there is a program called running start. It allows juniors to take classes at the local CC. We have several seniors that graduate high school and CC at the same time. Their classes are setup to transfer to a 4 year where they start as a junior. But I still believe that the trade schools need to be better represented. As far as summer jobs, on the farm we have a hard time 1) getting kids to apply to work and if they do we spend more time calling them every morning to get them out of bed and 2) government regulations make near impossible to allow them to work even if they want to.

 

[cuttiebrownbow]

They can get a second job. I worked 3 jobs plus GI bill and graduated with masters no debt

My nieces and nephews all graduated with jobs wating with minimum college debt.


Not my fault they are lazy and poor planners

Yeap, they are all lazy and poor planners. You should probably run for office, you have the tough love this country needs.

 

[Okhotnik]

Yeap, they are all lazy and poor planners. You should probably run for office, you have the tough love this country needs.

Where’s my free stuff?

 

[Azone]

Graduated highschool on a Saturday, started punching a time clock at a welding/fab shop two days later. I now make more money than all but one of my friends who went to college. It sucked working for peanuts in the beginning but now life is going pretty good and I have a trade that would allow me to go anywhere there is welding work, which is alot of places. Starting your professional life off six figures in debt just sounds rough.

 

[cmahoney]

Forcing blue collar people to pay for someone else’s white collar education sounds fair.


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[Okhotnik]

Graduated highschool on a Saturday, started punching a time clock at a welding/fab shop two days later. I now make more money than all but one of my friends who went to college. It sucked working for peanuts in the beginning but now life is going pretty good and I have a trade that would allow me to go anywhere there is welding work, which is alot of places. Starting your professional life off six figures in debt just sounds rough.

Congrats

Smart young man

 

[Molon Labe]

School is affordable. And everyone can come out with a 4yr college degree without debt. It is just a matter of handling your finances and planning. I was able to pay for my "worthless" undergrad and MBA with less than 7K in debt. Not even much of a sacrifice.

The debt issue falls on the parents and kids...not the schools or banks etc. You are not forced by a gun to go to college. You are not forced by gun to take out loans. Poor financial management by parents drifts to the children. The government intervention in the college debt issue is problematic...

If you don't want the debt you have to plan and make sacrifices...also delay gratification.
Here is a very simple plan that mirrors my path (except I had a higher paying summer job):
parents can set up a college fund for their kids...I had to ask my dad to set up a fund for me when I was in middle school after reading a book on mutual funds.
age 0-12 any family money or gifts 200/year
from age 12-15 mow grass...help a farmer...start a small business selling items put away 100+/month
age 16-18 you can finally have a W2 job...only work 20hrs per week at 8/hr (gas station, retail etc) and put 100+ away a week and spend the rest.
your first year of school at 30,000 is paid for with money left over for fun or slush fund for investment.

During your first year you work 32hrs/week at a job paying 12/hr and in the summer you work 40/week at a job paying 15/hr. If you don't think you can make that money at a job with 6yrs of work history already at 18yrs of age you are mistaken.
I didn't have a car at school, ate venison and ramen a lot, studied enough to get decent grades, still went out 3 nights a week with friends to parties etc.
your second year of school is paid for by working your first year.
Rinse and repeat.

The problem is that people only want to "get a degree and get a job"...what they really should be concentrating on is the time management/financial management that you can get out of going to school. It sickens me how many applicants we have that have zero work history and a college degree...they go right in the garbage. I will hire someone that is motivated has 2-4yrs of sales experience without a college education over someone with a piece of paper and "book knowledge" all day. First off they don't expect a certain salary...they plan on earning it.

We end up renting out our time to employers way too often and do not concentrate on creating wealth. You don't need a degree to be happy or live comfortably. You need to take rational calculated risks.

Think about college as an investment. With 150K investment could you start a business that will return more or less than the piece of paper that is a degree? Will renting your time out to another business where compensation is capped or leveraging your skills create more wealth?

 

[Savage99]

The government taking over student loans Sure made it worse just like healthcare

But a university diversity coordinator makes over 150 k and university administration keeps getting pay raises and incredible retirement on the backs of poor students

Someone young and healthy going into debt 150 k for a sociology or psychology degree. I’ve noticed since supervisi g milleniels the past 6 years that many like scream and cry and avoid work that isn’t “fun” until they get what they want. Been a nightmare dealing with them.

I have a friend whose daughter just graduated high school. Zero money saved for college but the family goes out to eat a few times a week, many vacations a year, all kids have new iPhones. I found the daughter a job this summer but she said she needs to relax this summer before college.
She’s going to a big state school that costs over 30 k a year. She plans on getting her doctorate in psychology. She’ll run up over 200 k in debt probably and will have a hard time finding a job and the job will not pay that great. I told the mom, my friend who is a teacher and still has student loan debt at age 50, that she should maybe go to a local community college first and join the reserves or national Guard and major in something more useful. The mom started screaming at me as to why I wanted to kill her daughter’s dreams.

That’s why we have a big student loan debt problem


And someone going into debt 150 for cancer treatment .


Amazing how of the younger generation I know living at home with parents with high student debt refuse to budget and refuse to get a second and third job to pay off their debts. Their parents sure love to brag how special and talented they are.

This was standard practice in previous generations.

And they all love Bernie because he is gonna take money from rich people (me) and pay off their debts for being lazy and stupid and their parents for doing a crappy job of raising their kids.

No sympathy at all for them

I have some sympathy in that their parents raised a $hit bird, but the values I was raised by say to work your tail off even if it’s not “fair”.


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[Bubblehide]

I remember the good old days growing up taking high school shop classes which taught practical skills, along with professional level trade skills. The school system, at least here in Ca, went from an education system that provided those that desired, to gain these skills. It also provided these opportunities to students that did not excel in academics. In doing this, the education system provided those student that did not excel academically with an avenue of not only self value, but also an avenue to a career; opening up doors to trades that provided a living wage that would support a family. Our education system abandoned that system, for a system of one size fits all and everyone is college bound, i.e., looking at a professional career. Those that did not excel academically had no options at the high school level; sending the message of worthlessness to those not college bound. However, the option of adult trade schools was available to those privy to them, because the option was not widely known of at the time. However, back then, affording to go to a trade school was not on the table for many, and despite student loans being available, this was not commonly known to those that were unable to afford this route.

In short, the lower middle class and below, were left with few known options and at this time, these class level people often had the belief that college was for rich people, thus above them. This inculcated a limited life for the vast majority of this portion of the population. It also inculcated failure to many, and turned those not academically inclined to drugs, gangs and crime.

Years went buy before this lower middle class and below became aware of student loan program, through government funded programs to raise awareness. But the one size fits all remained fixed in our K-12 education system; continuing the limited and failure life (dare I say model). Awareness of the student loan program grew. Subsequently so did the number of graduates. With this grew the competition model of universities increasing their capacity and putting out more and more graduates. Subsequently feeding the one size fits all model (everyone is college bound). This put out a glut of graduates competing for jobs, and thus driving down wages and the value of a college education, making it common place in our society.

While the value of a college education was taking a decline in its perceived value, so was the associated pay. Along with this, the cost of living in cities, (this is where the jobs are located) was rising, in many cases dramatically. This situation has reached a stage that makes it difficult or impossible for many to afford to pay their student loan debt. Subsequently, the interest associated with such debt increases, along with the amount owed. In short, while many are paying what they can afford, based on the student loan income level payment program, their balance is growing, instead of getting smaller. Do I even need to say this: so the result is that it is putting people that cannot afford to pay down their student in greater debt. Clearly this is a failed method, but still continuing to this day. To complicate things, many that planned on utilizing government programs of loan forgiveness, in which they were told they would qualify for, and in fact do qualify for, go denied for such programs. For example, teachers and social workers working in disadvantaged areas. This simply instills resentment in the student loan program. These issues have still not been addressed.

So do feel for some borrowers, absolutely I do. For all, a resounding no. But those that can not afford their student do have an option that is built into the student loan program. In short, they can indefinitely have their student loans in deferment by simply taking 6 units per semester or quarter. It does not matter the level of the class, or if they continually take the same class. They can do this at any college or university. So they could do this at a community college. If they do this until they die, they can go without ever paying a penny back tot he student loan program, and they get a fully funded education paid for by the tax payers. So in short, there is an option for those that are in the unfortunate situation of not being able to afford they student loan payments, as long as they remained enrolled and pass even the most basic courses.

This is a politician created crisis, just as the bank bailout was. Remember, "To big to fail" I recall a time when such monopolies were not permitted under law and in practice. I recall bell, our telephone company being broken up into several smaller independent companies. That is just one example. If one of the smaller companies failed, it was allowed to fail and another company would simply take over, stabilize the company, and then separate again. Considering the trend of our elected politicians having the tax payer absorb the costs of their failure, unfortunately my money (literally) is on us taxpayers absorbing the burden of the failure of our politicians to act prior to their failure in regards to the inevitable collapse of the student loan program. In short, despite the exceptional opinions previously provided, and the evidence of self responsibility and appropriate parenting being in the toilet, in many cases; the real blame belong with our elected officials, and their failure to act, on many levels.

 

[Bubblehide]

School is affordable. And everyone can come out with a 4yr college degree without debt. It is just a matter of handling your finances and planning. I was able to pay for my "worthless" undergrad and MBA with less than 7K in debt. Not even much of a sacrifice.

...

I worked construction for most of my adult life prior to making the decision to go to college full time. At the time, I worked a 40 +_ hour a week job at a very large multi state construction company. I wanted to move up the ladder, and realized I would not do that without a degree. (those degrees simply reduce a companies liability). So after two years of taking night classes, two a semester, along with summer classes, I did the math, and figured out that I would be at retirement age before earning my degree. So at 36 I decided to quit my job and go full time. It was literally a terrifying decision in which I was gambling everything on getting a formal education.

So at the time I had about ten thousand dollars saved. Since I had no income, I qualified for every low income program available, along with a small amount provided through military service. In short, I totally lived off of student loans while taking a minimum of 16 units (a max of 19) per semester. Most semester I took 18 units. At the time, 9 units was considered full time, while 12 was required for qualification for most programs. In short, it was impossible to hold a job (even part time) while maintaining the unit load. I was living in Los Angels, at the time, the second most expensive city to live in (currently number one). I completed my Bachelors degree in 4 years (at the time, the average was 6 to 8 years) and immediately entered a graduate program. You do not get into grad school with mediocre grades. Thus with the unit load I chose, it was impossible to work and maintain grades that would open the door to grad school. I did a joint program, in short two graduate degrees at the same time. Since it was a joint program, I managed 16+ units a semester and managed to complete all courses as scheduled for the full time program. I had no family support, as my parents were retired and on a fixed income. I made all of my meals and took lunch and snacks to school with me, with the exception of one day a week going out to eat for lunch, at a very modest place.

So the real life situation for me was that I came out of college with an eighty thousand dollar student loan debt, despite all the programs I qualified for and utilized. For me, entering college later in life, left me no viable option but to incur the debt to complete college. In short, one's situation has a whole lot to do with their ability to complete a degree program with or without debt. No not everyone can complete a degree program with little or no debt, as you did. In my case, I was at an age where expediency was an important factor in the value of the degree, and it's potential to produce a worth while income over an acceptable time frame. I simply did not have the luxury of youth to go part time. Granted, I could have limited myself to 12 units a semester (full time), but I would have sacrificed several years of income, in doing so, as it would have extended my graduation date by several years.

 

[Okhotnik]

Remember this gem?

Then he took over the student loan program and helped drive up education costs

 

[brsnow]

Ten of thousands of people in all economic levels of society claim bankruptcy every year . Don’t let the truth cloud your biases though

And the president employees hundreds of people around the world

If only our government would punish business owners. Sounds right out of Ocrazio Kotex’s ( part time bar tender who stole tips from Co workers) and crazy Bernie’s ( who has never worked a day in his life btw) play book

Trump is probably just the most well known to tactically use bankruptcy. There are casualties, people do not get paid for work or services provided.

I don’t believe I mentioned anything anti-business I simple pointed out that health care and education are not provided the same options. Would be curious to hear thoughts why.

 

[BeaverHunter]

Trump is probably just the most well known to tactically use bankruptcy. There are casualties, people do not get paid for work or services provided.

I don’t believe I mentioned anything anti-business I simple pointed out that health care and education are not provided the same options. Would be curious to hear thoughts why.

In relation to your last question, the difference is health care might be required to stay alive and a secondary education is completely voluntary. That’s actually one of the reasons why doctors take the Hippocratic oath. Getting cancer treatments for example is slightly more important than education.

 

[Elkangle]

This is awesome....look at how great I am and how bad everyone else is !! I walked up hill both ways in 3 feet of snow to school !! This is what I did, how come they cant !!

Standard generational stuff

Most blindfolded people touch one part of the elephant and then try an describe the entire elephant..be the guy the steps back and removes the blindfold

 

[brsnow]

In relation to your last question, the difference is health care might be required to stay alive and a secondary education is completely voluntary. That’s actually one of the reasons why doctors take the Hippocratic oath. Getting cancer treatments for example is slightly more important than education.

If one is voluntary and the other is required why would they be treated the same?

 

[Okhotnik]

This is awesome....look at how great I am and how bad everyone else is !! I walked up hill both ways in 3 feet of snow to school !! This is what I did, how come they cant !!

Standard generational stuff

Most blindfolded people touch one part of the elephant and then try an describe the entire elephant..be the guy the steps back and removes the blindfold

except who's going to pay for the hand outs? Pretty easy to leave that tidbit out of your analysis. Interesting the guys on here who mock a good work ethic. Bernie bros I guess


another reason education costs so high.Universities more concerned with fake social justice warrior causes then producing an educated grad with actual job skills

Oberlin College to Jury: We’re cash poor and big punitive award to Gibson’s Bakery will hurt students

Oberlin College basically begged for mercy at punitive damages hearing today. (UPDATED with additional details of today's hearing)

legalinsurrection.com

 

[wind gypsy]

The "crisis" isn't about the fact that people borrow. Its the fact that college tuition cost have sky rocketed by 160% in comparison to minimum wage and early career salaries which have risen only 25%. 30 years ago (when many of you were in college) you'd only have to work 400 hours to pay off a year of school, now it takes over 3000.

Interesting stats. I'd be interested to see what schools account for a lot of those costs. I assume a lot of it is private schools and out of state tuition? I didn't think in state schools were too bad..

I graduated in 2010 (North Dakota State) and now tuition is about $1k more annually than it was back then. My starting Salary was $48k upon graduation, I'm pretty sure the same position is starting in the 60's now.

Another interesting thing, I don't think people realize how much govt restricts loans for kids that grow up in middle class families with their financial poop generally in order. A lot of kids can't get federal loans and yet look at the mess we have.

 

[JNDEER]

Tough subject. I was raised and believe that you make the bed you laid in. "We" the people voted to make the age of an "adult" 18! Therefore when you are 18 you are responsible for YOUR own actions. Whether that's to have a kid, go to college, or start a job.

Not everyone can work a job and go to school- that is not easy for most.

There was a good article written a while back polling college students on their debt and what/if anything they knew about it. Something like 80% really didn't understand their debt, interest rates, payback date, etc. When I was in college not too long ago those who took out $$$ used it for MANY other things than tuition and books.
Many high school students felt pressure to go to a good 4 year college (actual education, get away from parents, etc). Very few really entertained the idea of a JC.

I am all for a higher education, but honestly working with a staff that is all "educated" doesn't make them any "smarter" (talking real world smart here- that common sense type stuff, logical reasoning, etc) then many who are not "educated" with a degree.

 

[TheGrayRider]

A debtors’ prison with a maximum sentence of about 180 days executed would solve quite a bit of the credit nonrepayment problem in this country. I know its not constitutional but people would possibly think twice before jacking up that fancy-smancy credit card or borrowing a gazillion dollars in unsecured student loan debt.