Swaro v Vortex spotter opinion question

Joined
May 8, 2017
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674
Hey Rokslide,
I am you all would share some thoughts and help give me a little guidance. I am looking to buy my first spotter. Each year I hunt CA blacktail as well as at least one out of state mule deer hunt. I also hunt elk every september. I have a pair of Swaro 12x50el that I recently saved up for and bought...I love them to death. The last few years it has also become evident that a spotter would be really nice to have, specifically in CO and AZ hunting mule deer. I've borrowed one a few times but am to the point where I would like to buy my own (thinking 85 or 95).

So here's my dilemma/question. I am a first responder and get a discount through Vortex. I can get a Razor 85mm spotter for right around 1k. I also, after saving up and purchasing my EL's, understand and value saving up for the top of the line, and buying once because its worth it. My question is, should I save up for the Swaro even though it will run north of 4k? Is it worth the extra 3k in difference between the two? My gut tells me that it probably is but wanted to hear any opinions as there are a lot of swaro owners on this site. It may mean an extra year of me saving, but didnt know if it was worth it.

Here are some things that have crossed my mind:
-because I have the 12x50el's, glassing in low light is still super positive...I dont know how much I would be looking through a spotter at low light being that I can look through my el's
-a lot of blacktail hunting is glassing under trees in the heat of the day (100+ degrees) and I am afraid the Vortex will have heat waves whereas the Swaro will not
-the 3k difference
-Swaro's change to their warranty whereas Vortex has unlimited lifetime (even though I have heard Swaro still takes care of you with top notch customer service)...I have only had my nocs for a short time and have no swaro customer service myself.
-the ability to buy once and own the glass for a lifetime (not saying this isnt true with the vortex but it is likely fact with Swaro). I dont want to have to buy a new spotter in 5 years or even 10 years.
-buying used isnt really an option for me as I am a mental head case and spazz out about buying used optics as I would be concerned that there is something wrong with what I purchased. Extra $$ for new for me is 100% worth the peace of mind that I am the original owner.

I live in an area where unfortunately it is not possible to demo these optics side by side. I spoke with Cody Nelson from GoHunt and I may try and swing by his area next Jan in AZ so that I could see the difference for myself. This is not an urgent purchase but something I would likely hope to do in the next year. Any input or opinion on which direction to go here would be great. I really appreciate this forum and all of you that contribute your thoughts.
 
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RazAlGhoul

Lil-Rokslider
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Jun 29, 2019
Messages
111
I have the Swaro 65 ATS HD, I bought it last year. I like it a lot, I chose to go with an Outdoorsmans medium tripod.. I feel it's a good combo. Have not got to use it much, hoping to this year. I think it's worth the extra cash.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
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Faced this same dilemma myself and had standing discount from Vortex that would let me buy their top of the line spotter for ~$1k. So, when I set out to buy a new spotter the Vortex was at the top of my list. I went to the local Cabelas and looked through the Vortex Razor, Cabelas Instinct (Metopta Meostar under Cabelas label), and the Swarovski. The first thing I noticed was they were all very rugged and easy to handle and focus. When I first started viewing at 30x in broad daylight they all provided a great image. However, when I cranked them up to look into the distant underbrush I began to see a huge difference in image quality. Above 45x the Vortex image significantly degraded with pronounced tunneling of the image. Both the Cabelas and Swaro provided a noticeably superior image at 60x.

Based on this test I broadened my search and went to a local “high-end” birding store. Compared the Swaro 95mm, with Zeiss and Kowa. The Zeiss was bulkier than the other two and to my eyes the Kowa 883 and Swaro 95mm were both neck-and-neck for the best image - both razor sharp. Felt the Kowa was slightly brighter, and I’ve always seen the slightest amber tint when looking through Swaro glass.

Top Glass = Kowa 883 (~$3k); Swarovski 95mm (~$5k)

Very Good Glass = Meopta Meostar 82, Cabelas Instinct (~$2700)

Vortex - began my search wanting to buy one but was very disappointed in the high-magnification image quality. There were many better options available. It actually pains me to say that because I like the company and all the support they give to military, first-responders, and outdoor organizations.
 
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gr8fuldoug

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May 21, 2013
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A deal is only a deal if it's what you want. To settle because the price is favorable will cost you more in the end as you'll still want to get the superior Swarovski (once you drive a Ferrarri a Camaro no longer cuts it) and you'll take a loss on the 1st one you bought. Hence the saying "buy once, cry once" It is always more expensive to buy multiple times.
It would be our pleasure to assist you not only as a member here but as a 1st responder. Please give me a call when you are ready to discuss optics.
Thanks for your service
Doug
 

pbcarch

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Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
406
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NJ
I did the vortex razor route for a bit as my first spotter then ended up with a Swarovski atx.

Didnt lose too much but I still lost some $

My intended use for the spotter was for elk hunting and rifle range. Honestly, In hunting unless you need to count points a vortex may do you fine. This being that you have your ELs for super low light.
What drove me nuts was at the range. With the vortex I had a hard time seeing shots at distance! Even with special paper I still couldn't tell where exactly my hit was. Now using the Swarovski its clear as a bell.

With the atx I have thoroughly enjoyed the system. I have a 65 optic I use in my backpack and an 85 for the range. I now recently purchased the me1.7 magnifier that is an add on to the eyepiece. Does basically what it says , magnifies 1.7x more.

One thing I will add is do consider buying factory demo Swarovski. You will find them from time to time at different retailers. I have demo 85 and atx eyepiece...cant tell the difference. Saved about 3-400 a piece and still has full warranty and came directly from Swarovski.

I never compared Swarovski to any other brand so cant help you there.

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cmahoney

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Jun 18, 2018
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Minden Nevada
I have SLC 15’s and a first gen razor 85. A Swarovski spotter is definitely on my list but I pretty much use the 15’s 90% of the time. After glassing with my SLC’s then switching to the razor for a closer look, it feels like junk. The mirage is bad and I don’t think there is a scenario where you can use it at or close to the maximum magnification and clearly make out antlers.

Based on my experience, I would buy a used Swarovski over the razor if I had to do it again. I got the same discount on the razor too.


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Joined
Mar 31, 2018
Messages
360
Location
Reno, Nevada
If memory serves the gen1 razor and the gen2 razor have the same glass. I would go gen1 razor, they are $600 or less, plus the dual focus is better than the collar focus they have now. The discount isnt so great if you look at aaoptics.com. They will have spotters close to what you pay as a first responder, dont let the discount force you to settle.

Personally I have owned a Viper 65 then Razor 65 then Kowa 773 and now ATX 65. That Kowa is really good. I got the ATX 65 from a friend because the price was too good but its hard to say if its better than the Kowa 773. If you want one spotter Id go Kowa 773 if you wanna changes lenses go with the ATX.
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
676
I had the ATM 80 HD and Vortex Razor 85 (1st gen) Next to each other for a couple of days a couple years ago. The Razor is really good, but the Swaro is better. The best example(s) I can give - Looking from my porch about 20 yards away into our garden at some tomatoes. With the Swaro you could see dirt spots on them and define the edges, with the Razor you could tell they were there, but the edges of the dirt were blurry. Looking from the porch to the rims probably 900 (ish) yds there was a chain hanging between posts. With the Swaro you could almost make out the individual links, with the Razor it looked like a blurry line. I know its not looking at a resolution chart, but rather what I noticed looking at real things. Would this make or break a hunt, probably not.

Honestly, I would put the Meopta S2 on your list. You can get one for around 1700 ish and they are very good. Better than the Vortex for sure and I picked it over the 80 ATM HD that I had.
 

Napperm4

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Dec 31, 2016
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Calgary, AB, Canada
I’ve been through a lot of glass on the quest to find what I wanted.

I ended up with the Swaro TX. Out of them all the 95 was best to my eye. Kowa 883 and the 85STM were close seconds. Razor wouldn’t make my top 5.

I noticed especially when swapping between my EL’s and spotter that having the same field flattened and crystal clear view was so easy on my eyes after a day of glassing.

If you’re like me and want the perfect spotter for everything the modularity of the swaro is awesome. Can always add to it later.

Realistically the vortex spotters are still a great piece of equipment, will do 90% of what the latest swaro will and are popular for a reason.

Consider this. You have the EL’s. Would you trade those down to a 12x50 Razor?

If you’re similar to me (and a lot of others) you’ll probably end up asking yourself this same question or wonder what you’re missing a year from now if you don’t buy the swaro.

Your best bet, because optics are so personal and subjective, is to order both from a reputable dealer that takes returns. Take a look through them both side by side and really consider if you’ll be happy with that razor in 2 years, or still wondering what you missed out on.

There’s better spotters out there than the vortex for less money including your discount.
 

cbeck36

Lil-Rokslider
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Nov 3, 2015
Messages
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Spanish Fork, UT
My hunting partner purchased the top end vortex spotter, he got the outfitter discount. First evening of a deer hunt in Idaho he broke it out. I felt so bad for him when we were looking at deer. My kowa absolutely smoked it. I can’t speak for the high end stuff side by side against the vortex, but that scope was really disappointing. Im not trashing the company in any way, I just know what I experienced.
 

LaHunter

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Mar 9, 2013
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N.E. LA
I have SLC 15’s and a first gen razor 85. A Swarovski spotter is definitely on my list but I pretty much use the 15’s 90% of the time. After glassing with my SLC’s then switching to the razor for a closer look, it feels like junk. The mirage is bad and I don’t think there is a scenario where you can use it at or close to the maximum magnification and clearly make out antlers.

Based on my experience, I would buy a used Swarovski over the razor if I had to do it again. I got the same discount on the razor too.


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Seeing the mirage is more of a result of the increased magnification. The mirage is still there, you just don't see it with lower magnification. Same thing with a rifle scope, at 20X, the mirage may be really bad but if you turn down the power to 10X or 12X, the sight picture may be good.
 

LaHunter

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Mar 9, 2013
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My first spotter was a Gen1 Razor HD 65mm. I used it for about 2 or 3 years in WY mule deer hunting. It worked fine for me. In poor lighting conditions, the image got grainy and dim. I compared my Razor side by side to my buddy's Swaro STS HD 65mm, during mid day lighting, the image was not dramatically different, but during late evening the image was much better in the Swaro. I have since sold my Razor and now have a Swaro sts 65mm HD.
I also had a buddy that had a Razor 65mm and the body of his spotter came apart during a hunt. That warranty couldn't help him during the hunt. If it is within your budget, you will not regret getting a Swaro instead of the Razor. There are several 'upgrade steps' between the Razor and the $4k price tag mentioned in the OP. You can get a very nice spotter for way less than $4k.

Another factor to keep in mind is atmospheric conditions, when evaluating optics, especially spotting scopes. During high humidity, high air density, and warm conditions, even the best spotting scopes image will be degraded.
 

fasteddie

FNG
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
36
I'll echo what some others have said. Vortex makes fine gear; but it is nowhere near the league of Swaro glass.
The modularity of the swaros is awesome tool I Bought a new ATX eye piece and nice used ATX65 objective, and am in the market for an 85 or 95 this year.
The swaro ATS/STS is noticeably better than the razor; my buddy has one and it's really nice.
The ATX/STX is what I got and it is WAY nicer than the razor and you will love it. If you are like me and tend to buy and hold, save up for the ATX/STX. in 5 years you'll be glad you did and the $$ spread over the useful life of a spotter won't matter.

The best advice I've heard concerning optics is..."pick the highest level you can afford and go one step above that."

I leave mine on a tripod in the by the back door and use it every single day to look at birds and other critters in the back yard.
Also, I find it pretty hard to compare glass in a store. Everything is pretty good under electric light or at noon in a parking lot.
 

fwafwow

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Apr 8, 2018
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I'll echo what some others have said. Vortex makes fine gear; but it is nowhere near the league of Swaro glass.
The modularity of the swaros is awesome tool I Bought a new ATX eye piece and nice used ATX65 objective, and am in the market for an 85 or 95 this year.
The swaro ATS/STS is noticeably better than the razor; my buddy has one and it's really nice.
The ATX/STX is what I got and it is WAY nicer than the razor and you will love it. If you are like me and tend to buy and hold, save up for the ATX/STX. in 5 years you'll be glad you did and the $$ spread over the useful life of a spotter won't matter.

The best advice I've heard concerning optics is..."pick the highest level you can afford and go one step above that."

I leave mine on a tripod in the by the back door and use it every single day to look at birds and other critters in the back yard.
Also, I find it pretty hard to compare glass in a store. Everything is pretty good under electric light or at noon in a parking lot.

Thanks for this. Do you mind me asking what you paid for the used ATX eyepiece and objectives, at least as a rough discount vs retail?

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fasteddie

FNG
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May 8, 2017
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I had it backwards. I got a used eyepeice for 1800 to my door; and new objective for about 900 (on special I think, not sure where the receipt is)
I had hoped to fondle the 85 and 95 (along with some Beautiful rifles) at the DSC expo but didn’t make it down there.


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tdhanses

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Sep 26, 2018
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Personally I’d call cameralandny and see if they have any Meopta S2’s left for $1799. If they don’t I’d highly look at a Kowa 773. If you want the best get a Kowa 88 series or Swaro A/STX.

The Razor is a good scope to lose money on as you’ll upgrade from it as most do.
 
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If you're not opposed to buying used equipment, you can buy some pretty nice Swarovski spotting scopes for between $1,500 to $2,000 on eBay. I'm sure if you look on rockslide you can get some pretty good deals as well. I can tell you right now Swarovski is going to be much better glass than vortex, I know Vortex has a great warranty for their product, but to be honest Swarovski is very good. I've purchased thirty-year-old binoculars and sent them in the Swarovski to have repairs done, they fix them, clean them and sent them back within 2 weeks and they were like new. Just my personal option but I would go with Swarovski.
 

Cody_W

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Apr 25, 2017
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Central Texas
As it’s already been said a ton, of the funds are available the ATX is worth the money compared to the Razor. Not to say they aren’t a great value for their price, they’re just not the same as a $5,000 ATX 95. I have both and as you should expect, there is a difference. Doug at cameraland will be able to give you the best deal available new.
 
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