Swaro Vs. Kowa full system

[CLibka]

This might be a long post, I'm going to try to simplify it as best as possible though. Also, please realize nothing I say is based on facts, they are opinions and I am truly seeking advice from those who know more than I so if I'm off base and there is a better option let me know. Lets begin.

So, in thinking of my glass setup for this year I realize that there are really two scenarios where a spotter might come in handy:

#1 - From the truck or during a scouting only trip to help locate/observe game. Basically where weight isn't as much of a factor and the performance is more important.
#2 - From the pack, while afield, to get a good look at an animal after you have found them with your tripod bins. Basically where low weight is more important than the absolute best performance.

As you can imagine this produces a conundrum as there isn't a great option to cover both of those scenarios. So that leads me to the two compromises that best covers them both in my mind. Either: A) Swaro ATX 95 and 65 objective -or- B) Kowa 88 and Kowa 553.

What say you? Price is fairly negligible ... the Swaro setup would be roughly $500 more.

 

[Blockcaver]

I use an angled Swaro 20-60x65mm HD for sheep, moose and caribou in the pack (horn and antler requirements to be legal) as well as truck or quad glassing. I use it paired with the iPhone via a Phonescope to really magnify a critter to ensure he is legal before stalking/shooting.

For a lighter weight back pack scope for bears and deer I have a Nikon ED 13-30x50mm that works decently and weighs 1/2 of the Swaro. I don't like quite as well for determining legal critters or for digiscoping as the Swaro, but it does work.

Your proposed scope combos would work fine....but I'd sure figure out how to try out them before I spent the $$$$ on them. I haven't used either of the Kowas, but have high regard for the Swaros you are considering.

 

[realunlucky]

Damn I'm luckily to even have one nice scope I just HAVE to make it work for everything. I put it in the bag and pack it around if 20oz breaks my hunt I didn't put in work during the off season.

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[Napperm4]

I sold my kowa 88 and went with the 95/65 swaro set up after having the same debate. The kicker for me was how good the swaro 95 really is and the versatility in the system.

In truth I’m less amazed by the 65mm. Not a huge improvement over the previous ts series with wide angle lens. The field flattener does make a difference but for me and my hunting not enough to justify the cost increase. I really debated the kowa 55 series after reading reviews but I’m willing to take a weight penalty for a larger lens and more magnification. Especially with the extender puck. I’ve even packed the 95 on a couple trips because it was worth it to me.

The last deciding factor was that I couldn’t decide between angled and straight. I was really leaning to the angled 55 kowa but it doesn’t have a rotating collar. Straight is better for me for 90% of what I do but I wanted the angled scope for looking uphill. Since I’m mainly high up and looking across or down if that had the ability to rotate I’d probably have gone that route.

I picked up the straight swaro ocular and plan to grab an angled also this season. That kind of versatility means I’ll have a spotter for any situation for the rest of my life (mid 30’s so I plan to get a lot of years out of it).

For the pack scope I don’t think either the swaro tx 65 or the kowa 55 is a bad choice. Having used both the bigger scopes though, the swaro 95 beats the kowa to my eyes (which was my previous “buy it for life spotter ) and as I said, with the versatility of such a quality set up it made for the deciding factors.

 

[Napperm4]

One other consideration that I forgot to mention - the downside of the swaro system (even the 65) means I had to start packing a more robust and heavier tripod / head to stabilize the thing.

Part of that is that some of my glassing points are getting a little grown in and I need to stand to see over the shrubbery with binos or spotter. I ran the gambit through a few 50mm spotters through the years and got by with a vanguard ph-111v head and vortex summit ss legs. I have a machine shop at my disposal so I had a center column extension made that got me to standing height (I’m 6’ tall).

Problem is that it’s way to shaky with the 65 over the second leg extension. So for those trips where I know I’ll be standing I picked up a slik 634 and outdoorsman’s pan head. That gets the job done with any of my optics but added another pound to my pack over the mini tripod.

 

[WRO]

I sold my kowa 88 and went with the 95/65 swaro set up after having the same debate. The kicker for me was how good the swaro 95 really is and the versatility in the system.

In truth I’m less amazed by the 65mm. Not a huge improvement over the previous ts series with wide angle lens. The field flattener does make a difference but for me and my hunting not enough to justify the cost increase. I really debated the kowa 55 series after reading reviews but I’m willing to take a weight penalty for a larger lens and more magnification. Especially with the extender puck. I’ve even packed the 95 on a couple trips because it was worth it to me.

The last deciding factor was that I couldn’t decide between angled and straight. I was really leaning to the angled 55 kowa but it doesn’t have a rotating collar. Straight is better for me for 90% of what I do but I wanted the angled scope for looking uphill. Since I’m mainly high up and looking across or down if that had the ability to rotate I’d probably have gone that route.

I picked up the straight swaro ocular and plan to grab an angled also this season. That kind of versatility means I’ll have a spotter for any situation for the rest of my life (mid 30’s so I plan to get a lot of years out of it).

For the pack scope I don’t think either the swaro tx 65 or the kowa 55 is a bad choice. Having used both the bigger scopes though, the swaro 95 beats the kowa to my eyes (which was my previous “buy it for life spotter ) and as I said, with the versatility of such a quality set up it made for the deciding factors.

Get the BTX instead of the angled eye piece. You'll love it,

 

[1shotgear]

Get the BTX instead of the angled eye piece. You'll love it,

Would have to completely agree with this statement. The BTX is worth every nickle.

 

[Napperm4]

Get the BTX instead of the angled eye piece. You'll love it,

I’ve been torn between the two. I do love the btx but I’m really not sure if I’d be happy without the variable zoom. I’ve tried fixed eyepieces before and while they do have probably the best view I’ve cursed more than once where I need that little bit extra to reach out there.

 

[skierhs]

I’ve been torn between the two. I do love the btx but I’m really not sure if I’d be happy without the variable zoom. I’ve tried fixed eyepieces before and while they do have probably the best view I’ve cursed more than once where I need that little bit extra to reach out there.

Agreed, the btx has its place but I’ll still take the atx over it I find. I have a 15x56 that’s not the same at the btx but I prefer these two options compared to a btx and atx set up.

 

[CLibka]

I sold my kowa 88 and went with the 95/65 swaro set up after having the same debate. The kicker for me was how good the swaro 95 really is and the versatility in the system.

In truth I’m less amazed by the 65mm. Not a huge improvement over the previous ts series with wide angle lens. The field flattener does make a difference but for me and my hunting not enough to justify the cost increase. I really debated the kowa 55 series after reading reviews but I’m willing to take a weight penalty for a larger lens and more magnification. Especially with the extender puck. I’ve even packed the 95 on a couple trips because it was worth it to me.

The last deciding factor was that I couldn’t decide between angled and straight. I was really leaning to the angled 55 kowa but it doesn’t have a rotating collar. Straight is better for me for 90% of what I do but I wanted the angled scope for looking uphill. Since I’m mainly high up and looking across or down if that had the ability to rotate I’d probably have gone that route.

I picked up the straight swaro ocular and plan to grab an angled also this season. That kind of versatility means I’ll have a spotter for any situation for the rest of my life (mid 30’s so I plan to get a lot of years out of it).

For the pack scope I don’t think either the swaro tx 65 or the kowa 55 is a bad choice. Having used both the bigger scopes though, the swaro 95 beats the kowa to my eyes (which was my previous “buy it for life spotter ) and as I said, with the versatility of such a quality set up it made for the deciding factors.

Sounds like you fought my same battle. I appreciate you sharing your insights. The TX 65 is heavier than the 553/4. Would you say the quality of the 65 is worth the weight penalty? How much better is the TX armor over the non-armored 88? Did that play into your decision at all? And you spoke about your tripod in another post. Do you think I am under tripoded with a Promaster 525? I will try not to stand often and even if I do I'm a little guy ... 5'9". Thanks for all the info!!

 

[Napperm4]

Sounds like you fought my same battle. I appreciate you sharing your insights. The TX 65 is heavier than the 553/4. Would you say the quality of the 65 is worth the weight penalty? How much better is the TX armor over the non-armored 88? Did that play into your decision at all? And you spoke about your tripod in another post. Do you think I am under tripoded with a Promaster 525? I will try not to stand often and even if I do I'm a little guy ... 5'9". Thanks for all the info!!

little guy. That’s funny.

I never paid too much attention to the armour to be honest. When I’m investing that kind of dough on my optics they live in a case so really a non factor for me. I have my glass insured through my home insurance also so I’m covered in a total loss. Can’t really say it factored in. I do like the finish on the swaros better but that’s more aesthetics.

I haven’t run a promaster 525 but a lot of guys on here do and I’d think it’ll hold up fine. Technically it’s more rigid than the sliks anyways.

Optical quality, yeah for me swaro is worth it every time. I like having the biggest lens I can within reason for the light gathering. That extra 5 or 6 minutes has filled my wall and freezer more often than not. I’ll complain about an extra cotton ball in my fire kit but never about the extra weight of my optics.

Watching the classifieds on here and I’d almost say at this point the resale on the small kowa is better than the 65 tx. They don’t seem to last long yet the 65’s are listed for a while. Not that we ever plan to sell these things but nice to know you can recoup funds quick with minimum loss if you feel you’re wanting something else. Not a deciding factor for me but something to consider.

If you really want to get to the bare bones call the guys at cameraland if you haven’t already. They know the high end glass inside out and can probably tell you a lot more first hand about that little kowa than I can.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Even when they live in a case they dent much easier than ones with armor.... Ask me how I know

 

[CLibka]

Even when they live in a case they dent much easier than ones with armor.... Ask me how I know

This alone makes me want the swaro.

 

[Elite]

I have the Kowa 883 and very impressed with it so far. Use it for everything including back pack sheep hunting. Yes it weighs a lot for that application but saves me a lot of miles when deciding if a sheep is legal


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[Beendare]

So much of your question depends on how you will be using it.

10x on a tripod is fantastic for spotting game

15x on a tripod is even better

Spotter for evaluating game at long distance is excellent
The bigger objectives are always nicer...but at a weight penalty...65mm is a darn good happy medium

Those BTX units are simply off the chart awesome...but they are big, bulky, heavy and hard to justify the cost for most guys using them on one or two hunts per year

..

 

[Charon]

first I have to say that unfortunately I haven't yet used the Kowa and only had some quick peeks through a fellow birders ATX95 in not very challenging lighting (it was great there).

From reviews I'd say both are optically the best currently available this side of astro scopes. The difference is the handling and finish where Swaro wins and the availability of the 1.6x extender for the Kowa. The question whether one likes the Swaro or the Kowa focusser better is probably a matter of taste.
Regarding quality - I think I read on birdforum some isolated embarassing stories on both models (ATXen fogging up and Kowa EPs with black spots on the lenses) - iirc all were promptly handled under warranty but of course the Swaro warranty is the stuff legends are made of (can you say chewing toy included ;-)

If I was in the market for a new scope money no object, I'd probably have a very close look at both and baring any lemons probably get the Kowa plus extender.

 

[Shrek]

I own an ATX 95 and have looked through the Kowa 88. The Kowa was a big disappointment. My Meopta S2 I owned at the time handled the veiling haze much better than the Kowa sitting next to it. A beautiful clear center with incredible colors at noon looking at birds is great and all but picking out deer laying in tall grass while looking towards a setting sun separates the best from the also rans. For value vs performance I don’t think the Meopta S2 can be beat and for absolute best the ATX 95 is king of the hill imo. If I had the luxury of a second scope to join my ATX 95 I would look for a ATM 65 HD with a 20-50 eyepiece. I know it would be almost impossible to find but I would love to have one if cash allowed.

 

[CLibka]

I own an ATX 95 and have looked through the Kowa 88. The Kowa was a big disappointment. My Meopta S2 I owned at the time handled the veiling haze much better than the Kowa sitting next to it. A beautiful clear center with incredible colors at noon looking at birds is great and all but picking out deer laying in tall grass while looking towards a setting sun separates the best from the also rans. For value vs performance I don’t think the Meopta S2 can be beat and for absolute best the ATX 95 is king of the hill imo. If I had the luxury of a second scope to join my ATX 95 I would look for a ATM 65 HD with a 20-50 eyepiece. I know it would be almost impossible to find but I would love to have one if cash allowed.

I appreciate the insight. Why not just get the 65 objective for your ATX?

 

[Shrek]

I may get the 65 objective but it’s a heavy for size scope. Off the top of my head I think the ATX with a 65 objective is 55oz. An ATM 65 was 45oz if I’m remembering correctly. The flat field of an ATX is nice but the center of an ATM/ATS 65 HD is pretty darn good and 10oz is a chunk in the pack. The ATX 95 is such a pleasure to use I will put it in my pack even when a spotter isn’t needed. I like to kill time midday just looking to see what can be seen. I just haven’t been motivated to buy a 65 objective yet.

 

[Rhansen]

I own an ATX 95 and have looked through the Kowa 88. The Kowa was a big disappointment. My Meopta S2 I owned at the time handled the veiling haze much better than the Kowa sitting next to it. A beautiful clear center with incredible colors at noon looking at birds is great and all but picking out deer laying in tall grass while looking towards a setting sun separates the best from the also rans. For value vs performance I don’t think the Meopta S2 can be beat and for absolute best the ATX 95 is king of the hill imo. If I had the luxury of a second scope to join my ATX 95 I would look for a ATM 65 HD with a 20-50 eyepiece. I know it would be almost impossible to find but I would love to have one if cash allowed.

This is the sole reason one must look through these scopes them selfs lol. I owened the S2 with both the 30-60w and 20-70 eye piece as well as the 65 ATS Swarovski and sold then both the second I looked through the Kowa 88.