Swarovski Z5 Out of MOA

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Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster. Love your site...and now I need your help.

I recently purchased a Christensen Summit TI in 6.5 PRC. For those not familiar, it comes with an integrated Picatinny rail (zero MOA, which is DUMB). My goal is to keep the weight down--and decided to trade extreme long range for weight and ordered a Swarovski Z5 5-25. I also ordered a custom turret, which I have used from Swar with great success in the past. Center of MOA should be 24, as I have 48 of total travel. During the break-in process, I was cutting holes at 100 yards. Same at 200. What i didn't realize was that I was using up all of my elevation. I 'run out of clicks' at 400 yards, though I want to get to 600 (top end of my turret).

Because the rail is integrated into the barrel, I ordered Burris XTR signature rings. While I know they have received mostly positive reviews, I do not like the quality. Applying the recommended torque, I can still see 1/8 gap between the rings where they screw together. Talked to Swar, and they said DO NOT go over their torque recommendation of 18 lbs.

I have dismounted and remounted the scope several times, but when I zero at 100, same problem...I run out of clicks. I'm stumped. Help a new guy out?
 

Wapiti1

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What inserts did you use in the rings, and where did you place each one? Those should come with inserts to get you up to 40 MOA of elevation change. You want the +10 in the bottom of the rear ring, -10 in the top. -10 in the bottom of the front ring, and +10 in the top. That gives you 20 MOA (roughly if your rings are spaced to spec).

The gaps on the ring caps are normal for those rings so they can accommodate the different inserts. Don't torque more than 18 inch pounds, I usually use just 15 for most scopes.

Jeremy
 
OP
H
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Jul 13, 2020
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What inserts did you use in the rings, and where did you place each one? Those should come with inserts to get you up to 40 MOA of elevation change. You want the +10 in the bottom of the rear ring, -10 in the top. -10 in the bottom of the front ring, and +10 in the top. That gives you 20 MOA (roughly if your rings are spaced to spec).

The gaps on the ring caps are normal for those rings so they can accommodate the different inserts. Don't torque more than 18 inch pounds, I usually use just 15 for most scopes.

Jeremy
Thanks Jeremy. Yes, that's roughly what I used...I suspect with some tinkering, I can get those to work. But what I'm really hoping for is to use the Warne rings I have (no MOA). Honestly, not sure how to say this: I'm a Burris fan, but it just looks like a lot could go wrong with those rings.
 

Wapiti1

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So, I understand.

Did you use the Warne rings first and ran out of elevation in the scope?

Then you used 20MOA in Burris rings, and still ran out of elevation?

Something is goofed if you answer yes to the second question since physics says you just gained 20MOA (assuming everything is installed correctly).

The Burris rings seem cheesy, but they do work and are pretty stout. I've used the Signature Z rings on several big bores (.416 Rem, .375 Ruger, .458 Lott) without issue.

Jeremy
 

Norm555

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Aug 27, 2017
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I had an issue with my Z5 scope where you have to turn the bottom dual sprocket piece all the way when you're sighting in your scope. The user manual kind of walks you through this but it's still funky. This adjusts it so you can get the full rotation out of your dial. I can't quite tell if this is the issue, but that was my problem.
 
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Which warne rings are you using? If they are vertically split, ditch them and thank me later.
 
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H
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So, I understand.

Did you use the Warne rings first and ran out of elevation in the scope?

Then you used 20MOA in Burris rings, and still ran out of elevation?

Something is goofed if you answer yes to the second question since physics says you just gained 20MOA (assuming everything is installed correctly).

The Burris rings seem cheesy, but they do work and are pretty stout. I've used the Signature Z rings on several big bores (.416 Rem, .375 Ruger, .458 Lott) without issue.

Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy. No to the second question. I put them on, but became concerned due to the gap I mentioned between the rings. Is that normal? When applying the prescribed torque, there was about 1/8 inch where they wouldn't screw down all the way. I removed them, and attempted again with the zero MOA rings. Went to range last night, same result.
 
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Using rings or base with MOA adjustment may be a band-aid with Z series. I know the Z5 that I had with the BT was limited to 13.25 MOA of elevation once you set your zero lock. That is well documented.

I sold the scope as the 13.25 MOA limits does keep your max shooting distance to 500-600 yards (ballpark depending on your round and zero distance).
 

Wapiti1

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Thanks Jeremy. No to the second question. I put them on, but became concerned due to the gap I mentioned between the rings. Is that normal? When applying the prescribed torque, there was about 1/8 inch where they wouldn't screw down all the way. I removed them, and attempted again with the zero MOA rings. Went to range last night, same result.

OK, got it.

Yes, the gap is normal. That gap is so that you can use the different inserts and not have the metal ring contact the scope tube. You should also notice that the ring cap screws are on the long side.

I would suggest you try them and see, then decide if you want to stick to them, or investigate other options. At least you'll know.

That Z5 doesn't have a ton of adjustment, but it still seems like you should be able to get farther than 400.

Jeremy
 

Wapiti1

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Why is that? That's what I'm running on two rifles and now you have me concerned.

They can pinch the tube into an oval and cause POI shifts, adjustment error, or lock up the parallax adjustment. That said, I've seen these all with standard rings as well that were torqued down too much. Particularly the locked parallax. 1" tubes don't show it as readily, IME, as larger tubes (30mm 34mm) that tend to have thinner walls.

If they aren't cranked down, I've not had issues. Others still seem to.

Jeremy
 
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They can pinch the tube into an oval and cause POI shifts, adjustment error, or lock up the parallax adjustment. That said, I've seen these all with standard rings as well that were torqued down too much. Particularly the locked parallax. 1" tubes don't show it as readily, IME, as larger tubes (30mm 34mm) that tend to have thinner walls.

If they aren't cranked down, I've not had issues. Others still seem to.

Jeremy
I've had good luck so far. Torqued my stuff to warne spec which is 25in/lbs if I remember.
 

Badge171

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Sep 5, 2019
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Not sure it apply's to your issue but here what happened with my Swar's and Burris Signature rings. Had the Z3 on my Kimber Adirondack 308. Long story scope goes bad, send it back . Comes back ,after mounting when I turn the magnification adjustment I feel a lock or grit. call Swar. They tell me it's my Talley rings that I have lapped. Come on they were fine before!. Nope Swar. have thin walls and that's what we recommend for rings and basses. Ok I purchase The Burris , install same thing. . One thing though you have to get the right inner ring set up or your not going to get the proper adjustment out of your scope. Swar. explained it to me the purpose of the adjustable inner ring were so the scope adjustment can be left to a minimum . So field shooting adjustments can be made, then re-zeroed. Leaving you full range of your scopes capabilities . Anyway I bought the Z5 3-18
 
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