Symptoms of overdrawing?

[Kindo]

I've been shooting my recurves and longbows for 95%+ of my archery for the last year and I have definitely improved my strength and back-tension. With that, I feel like my DL has naturally lengthened to a certain point and I am beginning to see some variance in my arrow flight.

It almost feels that as my strength has improved, I'm starting to find myself plucking the string. At the same time, I'll catch myself drawing too far and I have to let down a little to get to my typical anchor point. I'm throwing the clicker back on this evening to get back at it.

In the meantime, are there any tell-tale symptoms of overdrawing your expected DL? I'm about 5'10-11" with a slightly longer wingspan but I don't wear "talls" or "longs" in any clothing. Measurements say that I should be drawing around 27.5ish but I'm consistently at about 28.5-29.25". The 28.5" draw seems most comfortable but other times, I'll just keep pulling it back until I see my arrow collar well up on to my shelf pad.

I'm shooting a 58" 53# @ 28" BW PSA

Didn't notice any of this until I started practicing with my cold weather hunting gear on to get used to it. Personally, I figured I'd be short-stroking it when I'm bundled up looking like the michelin man.

 

[Beendare]

Sounds like what you are describing is the last bit of expansion into the shot.

Congrats...when you can feel this, its a sign you are doing things correctly.

Hitting you bow arm is one sign of Overdrawing. Some guys use a clicker to dial in their DL....I use blind bale shooting as I don't want a clicker on my bow.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

If you feel like you can just keep pulling further, you are potentially shoulder pulling, rather than rotating your scapula down and in towards your spine. This can lead to shoulder injury. Skip to 5:00 for a good reference:

 

[Kentucky]

I’m 5’7, with a 5’9 wingspan and I draw 28” maybe 28.25”.. my arrows must be 30” for broadhead not to hit riser.

When I started 5 years ago, I was drawing 27”.

That’s using back muscles not much shoulder except a little in the beginning.. if I over draw I hit my zipper pulls on jacket.

 

[ElkNut1]

Holy crap, you are way over thinking things, trad is much more simple! Just go out & shoot, you'll automatically get better by rooting out crap that doesn't work & employing what does, keep it simple sir!

ElkNut

 

[Warmsy]

Holy crap, you are way over thinking things, trad is much more simple! Just go out & shoot, you'll automatically get better by rooting out crap that doesn't work & employing what does, keep it simple sir!

ElkNut

Ayyy... i, personally, get drawn into ruts of collapsing, plucking, and target panic. I need to constantly evaluate my form, or I'll start doing things that I have to fix. I think you're right to some extent, but that video posted above changed my whole game, and I've been shooting awesome fir a few months now.

OP, I think you're right to evaluate those finer points. My draw length increased about 1" or more when I finally started ti get my form and aiming down. I've been shooting about 1.5 years now. Analyze your form from your feet to your shoulders. It does sound like you're drawing a bit long, but maybe you're improving!

 

[TaterTot]

Holy crap, you are way over thinking things, trad is much more simple! Just go out & shoot, you'll automatically get better by rooting out crap that doesn't work & employing what does, keep it simple sir!

ElkNut

Why would anyone want to train themselves to do things incorrectly and develop bad habits and form issues when a little coaching, research and training can eliminate all that. What you just gave us very poor advice and I wouldnt suggest anyone follows it.

 

[Kindo]

Thanks for the input fellas. I think most of you just reaffirmed my thoughts that’s Im finally getting into that deep pull from the back tension.

I’m definitely not shoulder drawing as I’ve been there and done that. Had plenty of shoulder pain to prove it....

I re-attached my clicker tonight and am going to test it out tomorrow. I mainly noticed the effects in my broadhead flight and a less forgiving arrow. Perhaps this could be due to a loss in arrow tune?

One last stupid question as I’ve read a few different ways of how it’s measured. When measuring draw length, is it always measured to the back of the shelf (the most forward facing portion of the shelf) or is it measured to the front of the pad or based more on the throat of the grip/center of hand grip?

Mostly just curious as to what is the best way for using the spine calculators online for ordering test shafts etc.

If I use the front of the shelf to throat of knock, it puts me at about 29.5” which doesn’t seem right for a guy under 6’.

thanks again!

 

[sneaky]

Why would anyone want to train themselves to do things incorrectly and develop bad habits and form issues when a little coaching, research and training can eliminate all that. What you just gave us very poor advice and I wouldnt suggest anyone follows it.

How so? By enjoying the process? By eliminating what doesn't work and employing what does work? Please enlighten us as to how that's bad advice? I know a lot of stone cold killers and target shooters with terrible form.... but they're damn consistent. Consistency kills.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Wrench]

When I have questions about my form I setup the camera and shoot paper and long range bare shafts. If you can stay inside your tear and continue to keep bares in the group....its in your head. If not....it tells you exactly what you are doing different.

 

[Tartan]

I wouldn't take a lot of stock in the measurement methods some people say to estimate draw length. Too many variables between shoulder width, arm length, hand size, grip on the string, low vs high bow grips, and forearm to humerus ratio that can affect it.

For the spine calculators draw length is nock groove to plunger hole +1.75". If there isn't a plunger hole, nock groove to throat of the grip +1.75". many bows are built so the back of the shelf is 1.75" from the throat of the grip or plunger hole, but not all.

When I overdraw I smack my nose with the string, and my bow jumps to the left after the shot (rh archer). I'm fairly mobile in my shoulders and as I have learned better form over the years, I really stressed getting my string side elbow as far around as possible. It feels good at holding, but found I was actually over drawing. Not over drawing from a shoulder/scapula standpoint, but over twisting my shoulders.

I now focus on keeping my head a little more perpendicular to the target and try to lock my hips prior to coiling. after making those changes my bow now jumps straight forward and I'm just more consistent with my lefts and rights.

 

[TaterTot]

How so? By enjoying the process? By eliminating what doesn't work and employing what does work? Please enlighten us as to how that's bad advice? I know a lot of stone cold killers and target shooters with terrible form.... but they're damn consistent. Consistency kills.

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I already explained how it's bad advice. Do what you want doesn't bother me none.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Holy crap, you are way over thinking things, trad is much more simple! Just go out & shoot, you'll automatically get better by rooting out crap that doesn't work & employing what does, keep it simple sir!

ElkNut

I have to respectfully disagree Paul

Some guys (aka Me) struggle with target panic, and need a very definitive, thoughtful, process to follow. Shooting a trad bow incorrectly can also lead to repetitive use injury if you do it the same wrong way for years on end.

 

[ElkNut1]

No problem disagreeing guys, that's what the Internet is for! (grin)

I mention keeping it simple as in not over thinking it! I see on various forums where guys have been shooting Trad for years & still aren't much better than the day they started! They feel there's going to be that magical day that all of a sudden they will group all their arrows in a small saucer plate from 15-25 yards consistently! It's not gonna happen guys, we all have good days & bad days but it shouldn't keep us from shooting & getting better!

When my Son & I first picked up Trad bows we were as green as gourds, he was 30 & I was 55, we did it on a whim, we both picked up 60# @ 28" bows & started shooting, we never thought anything about being over bowed or where should I anchor or split finger or 3 under. We both shot split finger because it seemed right.

At first we struggled like anyone else but were determined to conquer these bows. We didn't read books or watch DVD's we just shot & made adjustments that worked for us. We found that keeping our bow arm straight was important regardless of how tight we gripped the riser. Too, drawing to the corner of our mouth everytime seemed that arrows flew best. We also noticed that upon release we either kept our fingers tight to our cheeks or they could drift back slightly toward our ear but flinging our hand away from our face messed up arrow flight & accuracy so we noted it & avoided it.

Form was irrelevant, we shot with bow vertical & slightly canted, didn't matter, we got to know what was working best. We are hunters not Olympic shooters. We practiced as if in hunting situations not the perfect stance target shooter. We became confident to 40 yards in a matter of a couple of months. We picked up the bows in July & were elk hunting with them in Sept. My Son took his bull at just under 30 yards, one shot. I took a Spike at 15 yards & a 5 point at 28 yards days apart on OTC DIY hunts. In 4 years we took 9 bulls & several muley bucks, not a single wounded animal. Don't over think it, this isn't Golf! (grin)

So in a nutshell.

Bow arm straight

Keep fingers at full draw & at release tight to our cheek

Shoot with bow sorta straight up or canted, heck with perfect form, just draw & shoot, draw & shoot & do this daily & guys will find what works best for them. My .02

ElkNut

 

[TaterTot]

No problem disagreeing guys, that's what the Internet is for! (grin)

I mention keeping it simple as in not over thinking it! I see on various forums where guys have been shooting Trad for years & still aren't much better than the day they started! They feel there's going to be that magical day that all of a sudden they will group all their arrows in a small saucer plate from 15-25 yards consistently! It's not gonna happen guys, we all have good days & bad days but it shouldn't keep us from shooting & getting better!

When my Son & I first picked up Trad bows we were as green as gourds, he was 30 & I was 55, we did it on a whim, we both picked up 60# @ 28" bows & started shooting, we never thought anything about being over bowed or where should I anchor or split finger or 3 under. We both shot split finger because it seemed right.

At first we struggled like anyone else but were determined to conquer these bows. We didn't read books or watch DVD's we just shot & made adjustments that worked for us. We found that keeping our bow arm straight was important regardless of how tight we gripped the riser. Too, drawing to the corner of our mouth everytime seemed that arrows flew best. We also noticed that upon release we either kept our fingers tight to our cheeks or they could drift back slightly toward our ear but flinging our hand away from our face messed up arrow flight & accuracy so we noted it & avoided it.

Form was irrelevant, we shot with bow vertical & slightly canted, didn't matter, we got to know what was working best. We are hunters not Olympic shooters. We practiced as if in hunting situations not the perfect stance target shooter. We became confident to 40 yards in a matter of a couple of months. We picked up the bows in July & were elk hunting with them in Sept. My Son took his bull at just under 30 yards, one shot. I took a Spike at 15 yards & a 5 point at 28 yards days apart on OTC DIY hunts. In 4 years we took 9 bulls & several muley bucks, not a single wounded animal. Don't over think it, this isn't Golf! (grin)

So in a nutshell.

Bow arm straight

Keep fingers at full draw & at release tight to our cheek

Shoot with bow sorta straight up or canted, heck with perfect form, just draw & shoot, draw & shoot & do this daily & guys will find what works best for them. My .02

ElkNut

Guys will also never progress as far as they could and risk serious injury to their shoulders. Shoulder impingement is no joke.

This is akin to listening to a guy tell you, nah we don't need to follow building codes or best practices, just bang some pieces together and wire it with whatever you got lying around then move your family into their new house.

 

[ElkNut1]

Not even close to a decent analogy.

ElkNut

 

[quah]

I'm a fan of blind bale shooting as mentioned above, I'll pick a spot , close my eyes, draw to anchor, settle and concentrate on letting the string slip from my fingers while maintaining anchor. Often I'll hit on or near my spot.
A half dozen or so BB shots per practice session helps me keep my form and anchor in check. Vertical stringing is a tell tale sign I'm giving up on my anchor prematurely or pulling through the shot at release.
For me at least, closing my eyes helps me tune into my anchor and the quality of my release. Additionally when things get way out of wack I video my draw, anchor and release. Usually I'll find at release I'm pulling through the shot rather than letting the string slip from my fingers.