The draw addiction

[SneakyThunderCat]

I'm fairly new to the draw game. I've been buying points here and there the past few years dabbling in more and more states every year. Last year was my first time actually applying for a couple of draws, and this year I've applied for quite a few more. I'm wondering if it's getting out of hand, or if I should let er buck and worry about finding the time to hunt if I ever encounter that problem.

I'm 26 years old, have an average job with an average income and an average amount if vacation time to spend out of state hunting every year. I have some funds set aside for hunting trips, but I'm not made of money. The few guys I personally know who are balls deep in Western hunting are very well off, have the ability to take as much time off to hunt as they need to, and apply for just about every tag out there.

At what point does the average joe who wants to play around in the draw game call it quits? I'd be in a bit of a bind for time if I drew a few tags, more so this year than any other. Not saying that will happen, but you just never know. I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are or if any of you are in the same boat.

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[Lawnboi]

I play with what I see as realistic. Building points in states that are close, for species I’ll likely see return on without gambling for the next 20 years.

I make an average income, I can’t apply for everything I want to, just have to pick and choose. Iv come to the realization that a moose, sheep, goat, bison hunt will probably never be in my reach, and I cannot stomach the costs to apply.

Elk, deer, antelope, building points mainly so I have opportunity in the future rather than chasing desirable units. I’m already way late to the party for that.

 

[BC_CO-OP]

It is a matter of priorities, you can actually do quite a bit of hunting in many states on an average income, If you are not going into the "American Dream Hole of Debt" (new truck, new side by side, new house, etc...) Regardless I recommend acquiring as many points as you can, someday when you have more time and money you will want to use them all up.

 

[bsnedeker]

I think it depends on where you live and what your goals are. I live in MT so I have more hunting opportunities available to me OTC than I could possibly have time for, therefore I have almost zero interest in playing the points game.

I am building points in WY since it's close by and has great opportunity, but I'm not playing a long game. I'll probably draw in 4-5 years and have a decent hunt hopefully. Point creep is a real thing though so who knows?

I wish every state would just agree to go to a random draw like NM and ID and abolish points systems completely. I think they are horrible. That said, if I didn't live out west I'd probably be building points in a few states, use gohunt to plan out a few years in advance, and try to hunt every year.

 

[jmcd22]

I think it depends on where you live and what your goals are. I live in MT so I have more hunting opportunities available to me OTC than I could possibly have time for, therefore I have almost zero interest in playing the points game.

I am building points in WY since it's close by and has great opportunity, but I'm not playing a long game. I'll probably draw in 4-5 years and have a decent hunt hopefully. Point creep is a real thing though so who knows?

I wish every state would just agree to go to a random draw like NM and ID and abolish points systems completely. I think they are horrible. That said, if I didn't live out west I'd probably be building points in a few states, use gohunt to plan out a few years in advance, and try to hunt every year.

No need to say anything further than this post right here.

I play the game for various reasons though...My dad and grandfather hunted just about every Western state before I was born and before points were a thing. My dad only has so many years left of being able to really go so I want to hunt as many different areas as we can together and experience what he did with his dad. If that kind of thing wasn't important to me, I wouldn't waste my time or money on points. Just sink the cash into an account and buy a landowner tag a few years down the road...better return on your money and you'll likely go hunting a hell of a lot sooner.

 

[drewadams12]

I think that there are certain states that aren’t worth it at all! I would listen to Elk Talk if you haven’t. They give some great insight on Elk at least.


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[Beendare]

Good question.

I did call it quits in some states. I was applying for a lot of species in multiple states- something like $25k a year.

The game has changed a lot in the last 10 years....and I don't think some understand that. When a state cuts the tags in half....or severely limits the tags....you chances go from waiting 15 years to possibly, "never in your lifetime"

A quick analysis showed my odds were about the same as winning the Lotto on some hunts even with a pile of points. ...it didn't make sense to continue. YMMV.

.....

 

[2rocky]

One of the things i did with my OnX subscription is look at states I had not built points in yet and see where I would be in 5,10, 15 points. One state I realized there was no point in trying to build elk points because there was not one single quality unit that had 50% or better odds after 15 years.

Instead I look for units that are either LE for elk or deer, and one, both or the other is a low point unit. That allows me to hunt SOMETHING each year to know the unit. Other options are units that are part of a general season with LE special seasons. If you can get the general tag each year while building points for that rut hunt is always a good move.

I have one state that I consider my lottery state. I'll never draw it in the points pool and I am solidly in the Random Pool . My mindset is "you can't win if you don't play". So I swing for the fences.

I'd rather hunt each year than wait for that great tag. But if you are after one species at what ever cost, then apply in every state that offers it. Random or Points states.

 

[nettereo16]

The first step is admitting you have a problem - https://www.ncpgambling.org/help-treatment/national-helpline-1-800-522-4700/
Now don't draw my damn WY tag in two days!

 

[Rich M]

2rocky has a good approach.

I say to pick a state or two and collect points at 26 you'll have 3 or 4 or 5 hunts by time your my age - and that's all the western hunts I ever wanted. Being from the east and older, it was a dream of many guys to go once or twice in a lifetime. That made it affordable and plan-able. I still operate on that kind of concept pretty much.

Points allow folks to see what they can plan for and make sit easier to incorporate hunting into a normal life where you do more than just hunt. Embrace your life - live it and do go hunt out west a few times but don't kill yourself over it.

It doesn't have to cost a lot, maybe $200/yr but it does add up to $1,000 after 5 years and after 5 years, you'll be a lot closer to reaping the rewards of waiting to go and it will begin to pay off. Can you plan 5-10 years into the future? many folks can't. 5 pts on antelope =x, deer =x, elk =x. 5-10 points = xxxx 10 points =?

I have to collect points to hunt at home - 2 to 5 years to hunt for deer an hour from home. Home life is down here with 21 million people in the Sunshine state. Very few additional opportunities and the open areas are far enough away I'm not gonna go aggravate myself in the crowds to "just hunt". In my age and circumstance, it has come down to hunting wisely or doing something else.

 

[Hoot]

I am turning 37 this summer, I have 8-9 points in various states across the west so I started a little bit after you, I figured back then, and still to this day, A. if I drew a coveted tag I'd find the time and make it work, B, if it takes 10-15 years to start drawing tags, I'd be in a better financial and time position to be able to do them justice.

I still put in for extremely low odds hunts right now, but in a few years I know Ill be ready to start burning points. I am a resident of CO, so it's a little easier, but heres my short term outlook...

Burned CO deer points last year, arrowed a nice(for me) buck.
CO elk, slight chance for a tag this year, should be a lock for archery next year.
2021 CO late(ish) rifle deer, possibly the archery elk from above
2022 AZ archery deer, should be a lock
2023 NV deer

Of course, all of those plans are subject to change with the drawing of a sheep, goat, moose tag. Or any of the 1-2% odds type tags as well...

anyway, I say start building some points, you will be glad you did even if it takes you into your 50's to start drawing tags, youll be in a better position then to enjoy the hunts.

 

[Fitzwho]

I’m a little further along in my career, I’m 35 and started a new Regional Operations Manager position yesterday. Changing jobs in the middle of the apocalypse is a little crazy for sure, but don’t pass up anything that falls in your lap.

I still only have 3 weeks of PTO. That split between family (a wife and 3 year old daughter) and hunting doesn’t usually lend to having a stack of time come fall. I live in west Texas, so I am relatively close to some states. For instance I have a New Mexico Mule deer hunt this fall that I can be in the unit in under an hour. But I also have a 500+ mile drive to AZ for elk and a 1000 mile drive for Pronghorn.

I only started applying in the west in 2016.

 

[lyingflatlander]

I started building points in Colorado 20 years ago when I was 26. I expanded to other states 10 years ago. In 2011 I drew an antelope tag and was blessed to shoot a B&C caliber buck. I look at it as an investment to better units regardless of outcome. Kind of like my hunting investment portfolio. One that can’t be cut in half by divorce by the way. I love the west but one hunt a year is good for me. The investment just gives me better options as I get older.

 

[BuzzH]

When you start down the road of applying, you need to be savvy about it. Do the research, set goals, make decisions...and I would say, realistic decisions on what you're applying for.

Have short term goals, mid-range goals, and long term goals...but have a plan FIRST, then start applying.

I've done pretty well in the draws at times, have really had some horrible luck as well. Its just the nature of applying for a lot of tags. I went 3 out of 4 years not drawing a pronghorn tag in Wyoming, as a resident, with odds from 85-91%. Yet, I've also drawn random tags for muskox in AK, oryx in NM, desert sheep in AZ, bull moose and mountain goat in Montana, etc. when odds were <1%-5%.

 

[Violent Hippie]

I've never played this game and honestly could care less. Some seasons I kill game and some I dont. I obviously enjoy bringing meat home but overall just enjoy all espects of the hunt. The energy expenditure ( I.E. stressors) involved in this game have never been sexy to me and seem foreign in nature to the culture of hunting I'm used too. I'll pass.

 

[Huntindog45]

after last night the draw addiction today feels like a bad hangover. I thought for sure i would at least get my nevada cow tag. nope, another let down. All i have left is oregon and california and well.... we know how those end. I may give up on my elk fantasy in California. i have 17 points...one less than maximum. some cow tags are starting to go to people without max points. i may burn my 17 points on a damn cow tag. booooo

 

[Fitzwho]

Huntindog45 - Utah Antlerless draw is still coming up.

 

[R_burg]

@Beendare said it above - its not the same as it was 10 years ago... and when I look at the numbers, all I see is it getting worse. Both in cost and point creep.

Unless my math is wrong, Montana receives over 5x the revenue from their out of state elk tags than they do their in state sales every year. The math is even worse (or better if you're a MT resident) for deer tags.

Arizona on the other hand receives more revenue from their resident elk hunters than non resident - about double. And the overall number are staggering. You pay ~29x more to hunt Montana Elk as a non resident than a resident does. In AZ you pay about 3.5x more to hunt it as a non resident.

There's no way states like AZ continue along like this. Especially with the herd we have and how we manage it versus other states. Idaho is going to cost the same as AZ in 2021. Thats crazy talk when you look at the quality of the animals you have the opportunity to hunt.

And its only going to get more expensive across the west. No offense to anyone in states like MT, but they should be paying more to hunt as a resident as well. Almost the entire budget of a state Game and Fish Dept is driven by fees (IE hunting and fishing tags) and federal appropriations. And the Game and Fish Dept's need funding.

When it comes to point creep, sure, right now hard to draw tags are creeping by a point a year or so. But if you look at the data, 3-6 yrs down the line the points explode. Eventually point creep is going to jump 3-4 points in one year. And I'm not talking about Sheep and Goats... I'm talking about for Elk and hard to draw muley units. This will only push the states to charge even more, IMO.