The Low Bar: did Matt Rinella get it wrong?

[KurtR]

Wasn't a lot of sneaking, it was a wounded deer that they decided to make a video of.

Seemed like they were trying to make make more of a music video than anything out if it.

It all seems pretty poor taste to me, but tastes vary. If that wasn't a wounded deer, I don't think it was a very ethical shot, if it was a wounded deer as eluded to I'm all about getting any shot into it that will finish it, but don't think you need to advertise it.

But some like the Texas heart shot.

I didn’t know it was wounded and didn’t have the sound on so didn’t hear the music either. For the shot that’s just another day hunting cattails and pushing sloughs in the the Dakota’s. Looked like enough of an angle to slip it in front of hind quarter and break the off shoulder.

 

[Billy Goat]

I didn’t know it was wounded and didn’t have the sound on so didn’t hear the music either. For the shot that’s just another day hunting cattails and pushing sloughs in the the Dakota’s. Looked like enough of an angle to slip it in front of hind quarter and break the off shoulder.

It looked to me to be a straight up going away shot, fine for putting something down, but not an ideal first shot for certain. Maybe it was more quartering.


Music still terrible.

 

[Button]

Homo sapiens overpopulation. Yup. I have a dog and totally content not making crotch fruit.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

Matt Rinella's message and these discussions here on RS these last few weeks has led me to ponder the actual plausibility of a digital counter-culture movement to detoxify today's hunting culture.

First though, let's imagine that it suddenly became illegal to post or show pictures and videos of dead animals (or any animals being harmed in the act of hunting) anywhere online or on television. A large percentage of all hunting media might disappear and the person/entity showing that type of content would have to drastically change their behavior or business model in order to be compliant with the law. Those that began hunting in the era of social media (adult-onset or new hunters) may possibly quit altogether or lose interest and hunt less due to not having enough of an outlet for the self gratification that was previously attained by displaying their success for others to see online. This would be akin to a cooking show or food blogger no longer being allowed to show actual food anymore. Who would watch a bunch of chefs talk about making meals and showing you the cooking utensils and kitchen that they would use without seeing the delicious results? Would people still cook at home and follow recipes in cookbooks? Of course! But the phonies might give up and order pizza more if they couldn't show their Instagram followers what their dinner plates looked like every night. Many hunters, outfitters, hunting celebrities, hunting equipment and apparel companies, all need the dead animals or fish grip n' grins on their SM accounts, websites, or shows in order to remain relevant and gain or maintain customers and followers. Getting a majority of the hunting community to voluntarily refrain from showing dead things is a monumental and downright daunting if not completely impossible challenge. I am certainly guilty of showing dead animals and fish to strangers from time to time, but as a lifelong hunter taught by my dad in the pre-internet times, I feel like I can revert back to my roots with some self discipline easily enough. I think it may be a bigger challenge for the many hunters who have never known hunting, or life in general, without internet connectivity. With today's increasingly volatile political climate, is it fair to say that my above scenario may not be all that far fetched someday in the future? Some social media platforms already restrict certain forms of violent content right? Maybe as hunters, we would all be better off by self regulating ourselves in regards to displaying things we have caught or killed, if for no other reasons than to just stay under the political and viral media radar of the non hunting community, and to attempt to weed out the hunters who are in the field for the wrong reasons.

 

[Thomaaron]

Matt Rinella's message and these discussions here on RS these last few weeks has led me to ponder the actual plausibility of a digital counter-culture movement to detoxify today's hunting culture.

First though, let's imagine that it suddenly became illegal to post or show pictures and videos of dead animals (or any animals being harmed in the act of hunting) anywhere online or on television. A large percentage of all hunting media might disappear and the person/entity showing that type of content would have to drastically change their behavior or business model in order to be compliant with the law. Those that began hunting in the era of social media (adult-onset or new hunters) may possibly quit altogether or lose interest and hunt less due to not having enough of an outlet for the self gratification that was previously attained by displaying their success for others to see online. This would be akin to a cooking show or food blogger no longer being allowed to show actual food anymore. Who would watch a bunch of chefs talk about making meals and showing you the cooking utensils and kitchen that they would use without seeing the delicious results? Would people still cook at home and follow recipes in cookbooks? Of course! But the phonies might give up and order pizza more if they couldn't show their Instagram followers what their dinner plates looked like every night. Many hunters, outfitters, hunting celebrities, hunting equipment and apparel companies, all need the dead animals or fish grip n' grins on their SM accounts, websites, or shows in order to remain relevant and gain or maintain customers and followers. Getting a majority of the hunting community to voluntarily refrain from showing dead things is a monumental and downright daunting if not completely impossible challenge. I am certainly guilty of showing dead animals and fish to strangers from time to time, but as a lifelong hunter taught by my dad in the pre-internet times, I feel like I can revert back to my roots with some self discipline easily enough. I think it may be a bigger challenge for the many hunters who have never known hunting, or life in general, without internet connectivity. With today's increasingly volatile political climate, is it fair to say that my above scenario may not be all that far fetched someday in the future? Some social media platforms already restrict certain forms of violent content right? Maybe as hunters, we would all be better off by self regulating ourselves in regards to displaying things we have caught or killed, if for no other reasons than to just stay under the political and viral media radar of the non hunting community, and to attempt to weed out the hunters who are in the field for the wrong reasons.

Those are all very interesting thoughts and insights. As I listened to Mat, I just kept thinking “How can he judge that someone is doing something for the ‘wrong’ reasons”? We all do things that someone can claim is for the wrong motivation…just a thought.

 

[Wyomuleskinner]

is the original poster steve rinella?

 

[Deadfall]

I cannot speak for other states. Here in Montana something that used to help with overcrowding stuff, were the outfitter tags. I know this is hotly debated issue. Please take with open mind.

Used to be, guys who went with outfitter could not hunt on their own if unsuccessful during the outfitted hunt. Now guys can get a extra point towards the draw if they hunt with outfitter. After the hunt they can go hunt on their own if not successful on the guided hunt. Before the extra point started this last year it was the same.

Doing away with the outfitter tag immediately threw 40 percent of non resident hunters in the public land DIY pool.

I know everyone is against the outfitter welfare (as it is perceived). I'm indifferent about it myself. I believe most peoples trouble with outfitters are from people that are outfitter in name only. My opinion please be gentle...haahaa or not...

Seems to me that eliminating 40 percent of out of state hunters from the public land DIY pool is a win win for everyone.

Just something to think about.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

I love how he called out the big bow hunters

Social media hunters further degrade opportunities for traditional hunters by deceiving people into thinking hunting is something it’s not. When famous hunting personalities pay to kill elk on ranches that are off-limits to the public, what they’re doing is more like slaughtering livestock than hunting wild elk. If that’s what gets them off, great, but putting videos of their “hunts” on social media without indicating they are stalking areas off-limits to the public dupes legions of newbies into thinking publicly accessible basins are brimming with bulls just waiting to be shot. Nothing says, “let them eat cake,” quite like using social media to inundate traditional public land hunters with throngs of aspiring hunting influencers while stalking quasi-domestic wildlife on private ranches.

Cam joe jocko, try some public land non guided hunts.

Born & raised & HUSH are just as bad as cam & joe jocko. They draw a tag, post on IG about how tough their hunt is going then some local FLAT BRIM wearing social media whore DM's them on where the elk/deer are, and they go kill one meanwhile the whole time they are proposing DIY public land hunting.
These Guys are *uck*iN JOKE, they all start out and seem like normal blue-collar dudes and next think you know there pushing merchandise down your throat and now as @Mattrinella states they are basically market hunters

 

[wapitibob]

Wow

 

[Muledeerhunter406]

I cannot speak for other states. Here in Montana something that used to help with overcrowding stuff, were the outfitter tags. I know this is hotly debated issue. Please take with open mind.

Used to be, guys who went with outfitter could not hunt on their own if unsuccessful during the outfitted hunt. Now guys can get a extra point towards the draw if they hunt with outfitter. After the hunt they can go hunt on their own if not successful on the guided hunt. Before the extra point started this last year it was the same.

Doing away with the outfitter tag immediately threw 40 percent of non resident hunters in the public land DIY pool.

I know everyone is against the outfitter welfare (as it is perceived). I'm indifferent about it myself. I believe most peoples trouble with outfitters are from people that are outfitter in name only. My opinion please be gentle...haahaa or not...

Seems to me that eliminating 40 percent of out of state hunters from the public land DIY pool is a win win for everyone.

Just something to think about.

I agree with with you 100%

 

[EJDXT21]

It's an important topic and one that should be addressed. I can give my POV as I'm new to Western Big Game Hunting myself. And I hope other newbies aren't afraid to state their opinions because they're just as important as any Western State's resident's opinion. I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert. I've learned a lot over the past year. 2021 was my first time hunting out West. And I still have so much more to learn. I agree that social media and ease of access to information have aided in the boom of Western Big Game Hunting, there's no question about that. I obviously havn't seen it out in the woods from experience year to year, but I have certainly read about it on forums and magazines, and seen it on my news feed. It's partly due to that I was able to get out this last year.
I grew up what you could call a city boy. College, Border Patrol, Naval Base, King Ranch Texas town, population 25000 roughly. But I have mostly hunted and fished my whole life, since about 4 years old. I have always dreamed of doing a Western Hunt. And I could have but it always felt out of reach. There wasn't many people I knew who had the same passions. Looking back I could have self motivated, but I didn't so that's my fault. But in part due to COVID, working remotely, technology bla bla bla, I was able to get out last year, and I loved it. It was a dream come true. And I want to do it again.
Now I think it was mentioned either in the original article or somewhere else, you have people who get out there for the first time and never want to go again. I'm not one of those. But as a newbie, I have to self educate to prepare for a hunt. For me, I'm 37, that means getting on YouTube, reading the forums, watching TV hunting shows, and anything else I can to soak up as much info as possible. The way I would prepare is different than it would have been 30 years ago. I don't think we should so easily blame social media or hunting TV personalities. Honestly, these guys and companies are smart, they're businessmen/women. Someone said it here, that people nowadays want to be spoon-fed information. These TV hunting people, and companies like GoHunt realize that, and realize people are willing to pay for it, pay for convenience, and so you have a business model. I'm willing to pay for some of that so I'm guilty of contributing. I do however, make it a point to learn as many other skills as possible, such as reading a map, navigating by the stars, using a compass, building a fire, basic survival skills in the case my fancy gadgets fail me. And honestly I hope I never have to rely on those skills to survive. I hope I can always utilize my fancy gadgets because for me its easier, and why work harder when you can work smarter right?
For a lot of us newbies, today's technology is all we know and it's how we learn. in 30 years there may be some fancy VR hunting simulation to prepare for hunts. And maybe I'll be against that, or whatever the technology may be. But they people just learning will be all for it.
My personal point is that you shouldn't blame technology because we are humans. Humans inventing new technology is what enabled hunters to hunt. I believe we need to be able to say, yes things are changing. Technology is evolving. But we must also ask, how do we make sure that new technology is used appropriately. More importantly, how can we use it to our advantage to promote conservation. How do we make sure people are getting into hunting for the right reasons? That is what is hard to do. And those answers will never be exactly the same, they must evolve as time and technology evolve. That's why its so important to have good resource management, good biologists, good people. And rest assured they will be using today's technology to educate themselves, they have no other option really if they want to be successful and stay up to speed. It's only going to get harder to hunt and there are so many pieces to the puzzle. But these conversations need to happen, they're essential. And I'm glad I get to learn and hopefully be part of the solution.

 

[Thomaaron]

It's an important topic and one that should be addressed. I can give my POV as I'm new to Western Big Game Hunting myself. And I hope other newbies aren't afraid to state their opinions because they're just as important as any Western State's resident's opinion. I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert. I've learned a lot over the past year. 2021 was my first time hunting out West. And I still have so much more to learn. I agree that social media and ease of access to information have aided in the boom of Western Big Game Hunting, there's no question about that. I obviously havn't seen it out in the woods from experience year to year, but I have certainly read about it on forums and magazines, and seen it on my news feed. It's partly due to that I was able to get out this last year.
I grew up what you could call a city boy. College, Border Patrol, Naval Base, King Ranch Texas town, population 25000 roughly. But I have mostly hunted and fished my whole life, since about 4 years old. I have always dreamed of doing a Western Hunt. And I could have but it always felt out of reach. There wasn't many people I knew who had the same passions. Looking back I could have self motivated, but I didn't so that's my fault. But in part due to COVID, working remotely, technology bla bla bla, I was able to get out last year, and I loved it. It was a dream come true. And I want to do it again.
Now I think it was mentioned either in the original article or somewhere else, you have people who get out there for the first time and never want to go again. I'm not one of those. But as a newbie, I have to self educate to prepare for a hunt. For me, I'm 37, that means getting on YouTube, reading the forums, watching TV hunting shows, and anything else I can to soak up as much info as possible. The way I would prepare is different than it would have been 30 years ago. I don't think we should so easily blame social media or hunting TV personalities. Honestly, these guys and companies are smart, they're businessmen/women. Someone said it here, that people nowadays want to be spoon-fed information. These TV hunting people, and companies like GoHunt realize that, and realize people are willing to pay for it, pay for convenience, and so you have a business model. I'm willing to pay for some of that so I'm guilty of contributing. I do however, make it a point to learn as many other skills as possible, such as reading a map, navigating by the stars, using a compass, building a fire, basic survival skills in the case my fancy gadgets fail me. And honestly I hope I never have to rely on those skills to survive. I hope I can always utilize my fancy gadgets because for me its easier, and why work harder when you can work smarter right?
For a lot of us newbies, today's technology is all we know and it's how we learn. in 30 years there may be some fancy VR hunting simulation to prepare for hunts. And maybe I'll be against that, or whatever the technology may be. But they people just learning will be all for it.
My personal point is that you shouldn't blame technology because we are humans. Humans inventing new technology is what enabled hunters to hunt. I believe we need to be able to say, yes things are changing. Technology is evolving. But we must also ask, how do we make sure that new technology is used appropriately. More importantly, how can we use it to our advantage to promote conservation. How do we make sure people are getting into hunting for the right reasons? That is what is hard to do. And those answers will never be exactly the same, they must evolve as time and technology evolve. That's why its so important to have good resource management, good biologists, good people. And rest assured they will be using today's technology to educate themselves, they have no other option really if they want to be successful and stay up to speed. It's only going to get harder to hunt and there are so many pieces to the puzzle. But these conversations need to happen, they're essential. And I'm glad I get to learn and hopefully be part of the solution.

We’ll said!

 

[SDHNTR]

Those that began hunting in the era of social media (adult-onset or new hunters) may possibly quit altogether or lose interest and hunt less due to not having enough of an outlet for the self gratification that was previously attained by displaying their success for others to see online.

I see nothing but positives if this statement were to magically come true. For the time being, we don't need more hunters. And people that need any sort of electronic interaction to feel self gratified need to get a life.

 

[Thomaaron]

I see nothing but positives if this statement were to magically come true. For the time being, we don't need more hunters. And people that need any sort of electronic interaction to feel self gratified need to get a life.

When you say “we” don’t need more hunters… who are you to claim the public lands and experience of hunting for a select group just because you are included?? That’s the problem that I have with what Matt said. Anyone that tries to keep something great for themselves and exclude others is an ass.

 

[Pabst]

Hunting was cooler before it was cool.

"I don't want to belong any organization that would have me."

 

[SDHNTR]

MossBack Outfitters on Instagram: "MB prostaff Chad Fraughton putting an epic finishing shot on a buck he had a good one in. Tough suckers! Nothing like brushing up bucks with a muzzleloader👊👊 #MB2021 #mossback #mossbackguides #mossbackoutfitters

2,414 likes, 30 comments - mossbackoutfitters on January 2, 2022: "MB prostaff Chad Fraughton putting an epic finishing shot on a buck he had a good one in. Tough suckers! Nothing like brushing up bucks w..."

www.instagram.com

If this is the content the "top tier" of outfitters is posting, I think we need to take a flame thrower to the entire industry. It's been overdue at this point. Unfollow these people, demand their sponsors stop supporting them, it's not hard. Stop liking their stuff.

This particular clip notwithstanding, the entire industry already needs a nuke. If I were looking to hire an outfitter these days, I'd be looking hard to find one that is NOT on social media or a You Tube whore. If I pay one dollar for a guided hunt, I want the sole focus of my hunt on me and my safety and success. Not some asshat more concerned about "creating content"! Put the phones, video, and hard rock music away and enjoy the sanctity of nature and the connection with the earth while hunting. Real hunters don't need anything more.

 

[SDHNTR]

When you say “we” don’t need more hunters… who are you to claim the public lands and experience of hunting for a select group just because you are included?? That’s the problem that I have with what Matt said. Anyone that tries to keep something great for themselves and exclude others is an ass.

Then I'm an ass. I just think something as special as hunting should require some barrier to entry that needs to be earned in order to access. Otherwise the experience is cheapened for all. And here we are.

Being a Navy SEAL wouldn't be special if it were easy.

 

[Thomaaron]

Then I'm an ass. I just think something as special as hunting should require some barrier to entry that needs to be earned in order to access. Otherwise the experience is cheapened for all. And here we are.

Being a Navy SEAL wouldn't be special if it were easy.

The military is not a comparison. Everyone knows it’s not easy without selfish people telling others they’re not welcome. I have met some of the best people hunting, I’ve also seen it bring out the worst in people. It is never easy to begin a new hobby like hunting and appreciating the woods. I’m also not saying people should shout their spots from the rooftops. There is some middle ground to welcome new hunters and engage in an abundance instead of lack mentality.

 

[SDHNTR]

The military is not a comparison. Everyone knows it’s not easy without selfish people telling others they’re not welcome. I have met some of the best people hunting, I’ve also seen it bring out the worst in people. It is never easy to begin a new hobby like hunting and appreciating the woods. I’m also not saying people should shout their spots from the rooftops. There is some middle ground to welcome new hunters and engage in an abundance instead of lack mentality.

You obviously don't know me from Adam. I love mentoring new hunters and do it regularly, but without social media. Yes, you are correct that there is middle ground. That means mentoring friends and family directly and teaching respect for the sanctity of the sport, which therefore means there is no room for SM/YT self-aggrandizing or whoredom to complete strangers.

 

[EJDXT21]

And people that need any sort of electronic interaction to feel self gratified need to get a life.

I understand this statement and I feel like those individuals who are hunting just to make content to get likes on Instagram, or to get famous so they can make a quick buck are bad apples, which as we know can spoil a bunch.

Put the phones, video, and hard rock music away and enjoy the sanctity of nature and the connection with the earth while hunting. Real hunters don't need anything more.

I also agree to the point I think you are trying to make here. Any "real" hunter should be and feel connected to the earth and nature when hunting, and be thankful to God that they are able to experience something so magnificent.

Then I'm an ass. I just think something as special as hunting should require some barrier to entry that needs to be earned in order to access. Otherwise the experience is cheapened for all. And here we are.

And I also agree here that hunting indeed is special and there should be a "barrier to entry", you should have to in a way earn your way in. The But, that I would add to this statement, is that for at myself, even doing research online, watching YouTube and other shows, scanning the forums, going to state's websites, looking at stats...all that took hours, weeks, months, and a scolding from my wife because I wasn't spending enough time with the family, and I'm doing it again this year. But that's the only way I really know how. It's still at least from my point of view a lot of work, and it definitely didn't make me any kind of expert. But it did help me prepare as best I could. I wished I lived out west so I could live that life every day but I don't. So I have to prepare as best as I know how. As long as I feel I can physically do it, I leave as little trace as possible, I am respectful as I can be to the land, the animals, the people, and I can do that safely and ethically, then I feel like I have prepared relatively well. If any state were to say, hey we are cutting the number of available out of state licenses by 40%, then if that is what is best for the land, the animals and the people of that state, then so be it. They're the experts and I expect them to make informed decisions, now whether they actually do or not, that may be a different story. I want to hunt out West, I want my children to hunt out West, and I want to make sure we do it the right way.