Thermal for the working man

[Whitetails]

What are some thermal options for that won’t break the bank. I know you get what you pay for. I read some bad reviews of the atn Thor.

 

[sportsmans challenge]

Agm, hogster, flir, some pulsar.

I have a prg AGM for sale in the classifieds right now I am shooting coyotes with it out to 260 270 yards just have not pushed it much further

 

[WCB]

For a real budget person I would probably get a decent night vision with a thermal scanner.

 

[sportsmans challenge]

For a real budget person I would probably get a decent night vision with a thermal scanner.

I would agree!
If you can only get into the night hinting with a couple pieces, a good scanner will tell you what is there and give you an idea where they are coming from, then sqitch to n.v. to shoot.

Or just go thermal scope with low base mag and use it all the way in. As the cheap scanners dont do you a ton of good

 

[Courtlandfarms]

Here is my two cents. Outfitter in TX, Pulsar is the way to go no question they are leaps and bounds ahead of the others until you get into the 10k range.

The XQ 38 is what I recommend the most for best budget thermal around the 3000-3500 mark. It has all the bells and whistles. If you don’t care about recording then go with I think it’s the core or helion model. Same processor just without bells and whistles for around the 2k mark.
If going thermal don’t go any less than a 384 processor, every zoom is applied the resolution is essentially cut in half. Flir isn’t selling public and have not been impressed with their models in the past anyways.

As far as Nightvision I haven’t yet played with Pulsar scopes. I hear they are great though. I do have an ATN X sight. It’s actually surprisingly good for the 500 mark.
You will need to definitely upgrade the IR light. It is so much better with a high quality IR light and can be used up to 150 yards without issue. Also an external battery pack is a must as it eats batteries.
The biggest disadvantage I see with it is when firing the jolt recalibrated the screen so follow up shots are not quick.

 

[sportsmans challenge]

From ehat i have heard pulsar does have good customer service, but many guys are also having to use it for pount of impact changes and other issues related to updates or lack of updates or whatever the issue. They do seem to have video, sound, lrf idlf you need as well as the xp suppsed to have great picture.

The atn n.v. i had used one time was great to use and would also have been better with an external light, but i knew thermal was where i wanted to be and be able to detect them out there much further.

Do you have the wraith? They are saying that has been a real good n.v. scope for the money as long as what you suggested happens, new ir light and some external batteries to run all night.


There are tons of options and advancements all the time.

 

[Nuke Man]

I've been running a Flir PTS Pro233 for just over a year now. Been absolutely reliable right outta the box. I got it for just under 2k. Flir has just recently announced they aren't making thermal scopes anymore, atleast for the civilian market. So I'm a bit nervous if I ever need customer support from them.

 

[Glendon Mullins]

for true budget the Pulsar Core will get things done

 

[Mban2]

The big factor is the range that you are comfortable taking a shot at night. If you are hog hunting in fields with cows and calf’s, I would probably pay a lot more so I didn’t accidentally hit a calf. If there isn’t any risk of you hitting a different animal that what you are intending, and you are looking for 200 yards and in, then you can get a good thermal for around 2500ish

 

[Baddog]

Here is my two cents. Outfitter in TX, Pulsar is the way to go no question they are leaps and bounds ahead of the others until you get into the 10k range.

The XQ 38 is what I recommend the most for best budget thermal around the 3000-3500 mark. It has all the bells and whistles. If you don’t care about recording then go with I think it’s the core or helion model. Same processor just without bells and whistles for around the 2k mark.
If going thermal don’t go any less than a 384 processor, every zoom is applied the resolution is essentially cut in half. Flir isn’t selling public and have not been impressed with their models in the past anyways.

As far as Nightvision I haven’t yet played with Pulsar scopes. I hear they are great though. I do have an ATN X sight. It’s actually surprisingly good for the 500 mark.
You will need to definitely upgrade the IR light. It is so much better with a high quality IR light and can be used up to 150 yards without issue. Also an external battery pack is a must as it eats batteries.
The biggest disadvantage I see with it is when firing the jolt recalibrated the screen so follow up shots are not quick.

How far can you see with the XQ 38?

 

[Courtlandfarms]

How far can you see with the XQ 38?

You can see heat at over 800yards. When you start getting detailed pictures at sub 300. 100-200 it’s great. They did a good job setting up the zoom profiles on this scope optimizing it’s 384 processor.

The Pulsar XP50 is amazing but it’s also quite a bit more. But the XQ38 is very impressive for its price

 

[sportsmans challenge]

Will be submitting a review in the next week or so on the agm asp 35 scanner, will have some pics and a video or 2 linked.

Sold my agm python ts 35 micro and now have my n-vision halo lr and it is mind blowing! Had it side by side with a pulsar xp 38 trail lrf and a trijicon ir hunter 60mm i think it was and there was co comparison.

 

[Sportsman247]

I have an ATN Thor4 4.5x18 and absolutely love it. Game changer for my coyote hunting.

 

[sportsmans challenge]

I have an ATN Thor4 4.5x18 and absolutely love it. Game changer for my coyote hunting.

Sounds like i have been hearing less issues with atn than pulsar lately except for customer service. And now that pulsar dropped all small non brick and mortar dealers, because of their supply issues they are about on par.

 

[Sportsman247]

I too heard and read a ton of reviews and complaints regarding the ATN products. After talking with a couple of guys that run the ATN Thor 4 scopes almost every night(hog hunters), I decided to go with the one I purchased. Knock on wood, I haven't had any issues thus far.

 

[SpookySpectre308]

Looking around the backyard (about 2-300 yds) the sightmark wraith HD was showing the dog and some deer pretty well, definitely could have fired. I had Cabelas points and a gift card from Christmas. They were on sale recently due to a new model coming out. Don't know how it will hold up but it sure was cheap.

 

[Combatclo]

What are some thermal options for that won’t break the bank. I know you get what you pay for. I read some bad reviews of the atn Thor.

Pulsar NV is great gear

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Hello y'all, I was browsing the forum, saw this thread, and joined to respond. Until December 31, I worked for a vendor and got to try out a lot of different thermal products. I am not involved with trying to sell thermal or night vision and am not currently involved with any vendors for thermal or NV. I have been hunting with therm since 2014/2015. Budget thermal, as mentioned includes ATN, AGM, Bering Optics, and Pulsar.

You also have FLIR, but they stopped making new rifle scopes to sell on the civilian market. FLIR was floundering after they introduced their RS line of scopes that didn't do well in the market. Armasight had a large following of consumers and used FLIR cores and after Armasight had an abysmal roll out of the high end Zeus Pro scopes that had a bunch of image issues, they were apparently ripe for the picking and FLIR purchased Armasight. In doing so, FLIR worked to sell off remaining Armasight brand product and introduce Armasight features into their new line of PTS scopes using the much heralded Boson 12 micron (12 is good) cores. The only problem was that they could only get the low end scopes to work and never could get the higher 640 resolution cores to work properly. Eventually, they literally just quit trying and backed out of the market and are now only selling off whatever stock they had and have promised to honor warranties and such. There is no future in this line of rifle scopes.

ATN is problematic. When their scopes work, the often work well for what they are. When they don't work, people have nightmare stories about getting customer service. Don't get me wrong, ALL brands of electro optics are apt to have issues in any given unit. I have returned optics to FLIR, Pulsar, Armasight, and Trijicon for various reasons. That is the nature of electro optics. What matters is how they take care of you when you need to return something.

AGN is comprised of 3 partners, two of which are the Tarakanov brothers who were with ATN, moved to Armasight, and then were part of FLIR when Armasight was purchased. They then went to PRG and started making their scopes and for whatever reason, branched off from PRG and now are AGM. Their thermal cores are made by a variety of companies depending on the unit. The lowest end end Python units sold previously under PRG has issues with retaining focus during recoil. I don't know if they worked that out or not. AGN offers a bunch of models and as the new kid on the block, there isn't much insight into their customer service.

Bering Optics is another new kid, although they have sold optics for years, they are new to thermal. I have met with the owner, Boris, and have hunted with the Hogster-C (clip-on) and Hogster-R. I am not a fan of clip-ons in general, but I got in a lot of successful hunting with the Hogster-C and it had a much better image than the Hogster-R despite having the same 384 resolution core. The difference, I believe, is in the fact that the C model had a larger lens. The Hogster-C is not a budget unit like the Hogster-R. The Hogster-R is capable. The one I used belongs to a buddy of mine. The problem with it and other lower end thermal optics is that you have to work much harder to properly identify targets. People new to thermal will have more trouble with this, such as determining the difference between a calf and a hog, coyote and small deer, etc. The best operational ranges for the lower end scopes from all of the budget brands are within 100 yards, though hunting out to 200 is certainly possible and in some cases even farther, but you will have trouble identifying targets properly at longer ranges...just a word of caution. The cool thing about the Hogster-R is that is does have an objective focus, something not present on the lowest of the low end scopes.

Pulsar has the best customer service in the business. Trijicon is also outstanding, but Trijicon doesn't have anything budget minded. The cheapest Pulsar thermal is the Core RQX30V. Don't buy it. I have hunted with it and while you can get it to work just fine and it does work as designed, the resolution and small lens results in the image always looking overly blurry. Most people that I know that bought them ended up either selling it off and buying something better, or just buying something better and using the RQX30V as a handheld spotter or guest optic. Save up and pay a little more for a Thermion XQ38 or even better, and XQ50. You will be happy you did.

When it comes to thermal optics, keep these things in mind.
The larger the objective lens, the better.
The higher the resolution, the better.
The lower the micron number, the better
Hz rate, higher is better for image motion, most are 30, 50, or 60. 30 will work fine for most needs, but higher is better.
All civilian thermal scopes use digital magnification. So your base or 'native' magnification is where you will have the best image. As you zoom in the image gets larger but the resolution drops. If you have a 320x240 resolution scope that is 2x (native) and you zoom to 4x, your resolution has been dropped to 160x120, which gives you only 1/4 of the pixels. Many people think that going from 320 to 160 cuts the resolution in half, but is quarters it because you are talking about area. As the resolution decreases, image quality decreases. On many scopes, the highest level of magnification may be 8 times whatever the native magnification was and the image unusable or virtually unusable.

If interested, I have some youtube videos with Pulsar, FLIR, Bering Optics gear. Just search for Carpe Sus on Youtube.

 

[silasbowhunter]

Hello y'all, I was browsing the forum, saw this thread, and joined to respond. Until December 31, I worked for a vendor and got to try out a lot of different thermal products. I am not involved with trying to sell thermal or night vision and am not currently involved with any vendors for thermal or NV. I have been hunting with therm since 2014/2015. Budget thermal, as mentioned includes ATN, AGM, Bering Optics, and Pulsar.

You also have FLIR, but they stopped making new rifle scopes to sell on the civilian market. FLIR was floundering after they introduced their RS line of scopes that didn't do well in the market. Armasight had a large following of consumers and used FLIR cores and after Armasight had an abysmal roll out of the high end Zeus Pro scopes that had a bunch of image issues, they were apparently ripe for the picking and FLIR purchased Armasight. In doing so, FLIR worked to sell off remaining Armasight brand product and introduce Armasight features into their new line of PTS scopes using the much heralded Boson 12 micron (12 is good) cores. The only problem was that they could only get the low end scopes to work and never could get the higher 640 resolution cores to work properly. Eventually, they literally just quit trying and backed out of the market and are now only selling off whatever stock they had and have promised to honor warranties and such. There is no future in this line of rifle scopes.

ATN is problematic. When their scopes work, the often work well for what they are. When they don't work, people have nightmare stories about getting customer service. Don't get me wrong, ALL brands of electro optics are apt to have issues in any given unit. I have returned optics to FLIR, Pulsar, Armasight, and Trijicon for various reasons. That is the nature of electro optics. What matters is how they take care of you when you need to return something.

AGN is comprised of 3 partners, two of which are the Tarakanov brothers who were with ATN, moved to Armasight, and then were part of FLIR when Armasight was purchased. They then went to PRG and started making their scopes and for whatever reason, branched off from PRG and now are AGM. Their thermal cores are made by a variety of companies depending on the unit. The lowest end end Python units sold previously under PRG has issues with retaining focus during recoil. I don't know if they worked that out or not. AGN offers a bunch of models and as the new kid on the block, there isn't much insight into their customer service.

Bering Optics is another new kid, although they have sold optics for years, they are new to thermal. I have met with the owner, Boris, and have hunted with the Hogster-C (clip-on) and Hogster-R. I am not a fan of clip-ons in general, but I got in a lot of successful hunting with the Hogster-C and it had a much better image than the Hogster-R despite having the same 384 resolution core. The difference, I believe, is in the fact that the C model had a larger lens. The Hogster-C is not a budget unit like the Hogster-R. The Hogster-R is capable. The one I used belongs to a buddy of mine. The problem with it and other lower end thermal optics is that you have to work much harder to properly identify targets. People new to thermal will have more trouble with this, such as determining the difference between a calf and a hog, coyote and small deer, etc. The best operational ranges for the lower end scopes from all of the budget brands are within 100 yards, though hunting out to 200 is certainly possible and in some cases even farther, but you will have trouble identifying targets properly at longer ranges...just a word of caution. The cool thing about the Hogster-R is that is does have an objective focus, something not present on the lowest of the low end scopes.

Pulsar has the best customer service in the business. Trijicon is also outstanding, but Trijicon doesn't have anything budget minded. The cheapest Pulsar thermal is the Core RQX30V. Don't buy it. I have hunted with it and while you can get it to work just fine and it does work as designed, the resolution and small lens results in the image always looking overly blurry. Most people that I know that bought them ended up either selling it off and buying something better, or just buying something better and using the RQX30V as a handheld spotter or guest optic. Save up and pay a little more for a Thermion XQ38 or even better, and XQ50. You will be happy you did.

When it comes to thermal optics, keep these things in mind.
The larger the objective lens, the better.
The higher the resolution, the better.
The lower the micron number, the better
Hz rate, higher is better for image motion, most are 30, 50, or 60. 30 will work fine for most needs, but higher is better.
All civilian thermal scopes use digital magnification. So your base or 'native' magnification is where you will have the best image. As you zoom in the image gets larger but the resolution drops. If you have a 320x240 resolution scope that is 2x (native) and you zoom to 4x, your resolution has been dropped to 160x120, which gives you only 1/4 of the pixels. Many people think that going from 320 to 160 cuts the resolution in half, but is quarters it because you are talking about area. As the resolution decreases, image quality decreases. On many scopes, the highest level of magnification may be 8 times whatever the native magnification was and the image unusable or virtually unusable.

If interested, I have some youtube videos with Pulsar, FLIR, Bering Optics gear. Just search for Carpe Sus on Youtube.

Really good information. Thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Split toe]

I have a Pulsar Thermion XP50 and love it.

If you want to see some of my videos check out my youtube page
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM_onznjFL4m4WqnpFE4oQg?view_as=subscriber

I also have a Instagram account: Night_Moves_Inc