This is why our Deer numbers are down!

[Macegl]

There are some special circumstances where predators are a driving force, but more often than not it is habitat degradation,

Right on the money, habitat degradation is 90% of the problem. However, it will take the longest to fix, and is also the most costly.

I'm all for predator control, and believe it makes up a large portion of the remaining 10% of the problem after habitat.

In the west, most states have been cutting tags for decades, and for some reason mule deer numbers continue to decline. Huh, maybe it's time we try another tactic.

Habitat, habitat, habitat, no food = no deer!

 

[bushwalt]

Numerous studies have shown mountain lions are killing on average 2 deer a week. We have something like 8,000 cats in Colorado. Even if it is 1.5 deer per week, its a helluva lot of deer. The number of cats need to be reduced here. And apparently parks and rec thinks the bears need to be reduced as they dropped the cost of bear tags and issued a ton more of them. So pontificate about road kill and human impacts all you want, the reality is our predator numbers are way too high.

Which studies have you been reading regarding numbers of deer killed per week by lions? Everybody would benefit from seeing a citation or link to those studies. Today the CPW website says that somewhere between 3,000 and 7,000 cougar are living in CO. Nobody is pontificating about anything here and you may want to look up the definition of that word before using it.

There is no need to exaggerate numbers to fit your opinion. We all know mt lions kill and eat deer. But as much as hunters don't like to admit it, we as humans are as much or more to blame for population declines of ungulates. And we kill deer through a variety of means many of which have been mentioned in this thread. The reality is you (we) don't like competition and that is exactly what lions represent. Competition. So let's just try to be honest and straightforward about the deer population of where you live.

 

[30338]

One on lions and elk:

GOHUNT // The Hunting Company

GOHUNT empowers hunters with the tools, technology, gear, and resources they need to get the most out of their time in the field.

www.gohunt.com

And one lion in this study killed 18 moose in one year:

Ferocious appetites: Study finds mountain lions may be eating more than previously believed

Mountain lions, the largest members of the cat family in North America, may be heartier eaters than some researchers originally estimated.

billingsgazette.com

Looks like they were averaging 1 ungulate per week. Averaging out deer, elk, moose.

I'll average your numbers of 3000 to 7000 and will come up with 5000 cats. Is that okay? And then using 1 ungulate per week, that comes out to 260,000 total, of elk, deer, and moose. Not sure if that would be 130,000 elk and 130,000 deer and a handful of moose, but close enough. That seems very significant to me and something that the state of Colorado should take into consideration for reducing cat numbers.

 

[30338]

Some things I do appreciate about Colorado in regards to deer and road kill. We have spent a fortune on deer proof fencing along with crossing up and down I-70. I have to think that has done a great deal to reduce road kills in most areas of that corridor. So good job to the DOW in that regard.

I still don't understand the issuing of so many doe tags each year. Same goes for ewe sheep tags and cow moose tags.

 

[bushwalt]

One on lions and elk:

GOHUNT // The Hunting Company

GOHUNT empowers hunters with the tools, technology, gear, and resources they need to get the most out of their time in the field.

www.gohunt.com

And one lion in this study killed 18 moose in one year:

Ferocious appetites: Study finds mountain lions may be eating more than previously believed

Mountain lions, the largest members of the cat family in North America, may be heartier eaters than some researchers originally estimated.

billingsgazette.com

Looks like they were averaging 1 ungulate per week. Averaging out deer, elk, moose.

I'll average your numbers of 3000 to 7000 and will come up with 5000 cats. Is that okay? And then using 1 ungulate per week, that comes out to 260,000 total, of elk, deer, and moose. Not sure if that would be 130,000 elk and 130,000 deer and a handful of moose, but close enough. That seems very significant to me and something that the state of Colorado should take into consideration for reducing cat numbers.

Thanks!

 

[30338]

Sure thing. I didn't want to trouble you with looking up our deer harvest by hunters. So I did it for you. In 2018, hunters killed 38,000 deer in Colorado.

Hunters killed 44,000 elk in 2018. So hunters killed 82,000 deer and elk in 2018. And cats, based on the studies I referenced, are going to be killing right at 260,000. Over 3x more than hunters. I don't mind some competition, but kind of thinking I'd like to reduce that cat population a bit eh?

 

[30338]

I was curious and looked up Colorado roadkill deer in 2018 since you mentioned that was a contributor to the deer decline. Per CDOT, there were at least 4,000 deer car collisions in Colorado in 2018. So compared to depredation by cats, not counting bears and coyotes, it doesn't seem to be a big deal really.

 

[PathFinder]

One on lions and elk:

GOHUNT // The Hunting Company

GOHUNT empowers hunters with the tools, technology, gear, and resources they need to get the most out of their time in the field.

www.gohunt.com

And one lion in this study killed 18 moose in one year:

Ferocious appetites: Study finds mountain lions may be eating more than previously believed

Mountain lions, the largest members of the cat family in North America, may be heartier eaters than some researchers originally estimated.

billingsgazette.com

Looks like they were averaging 1 ungulate per week. Averaging out deer, elk, moose.

I'll average your numbers of 3000 to 7000 and will come up with 5000 cats. Is that okay? And then using 1 ungulate per week, that comes out to 260,000 total, of elk, deer, and moose. Not sure if that would be 130,000 elk and 130,000 deer and a handful of moose, but close enough. That seems very significant to me and something that the state of Colorado should take into consideration for reducing cat numbers.

A recent study of a male lion near Pueblo told a different story entirely. He killed more badgers than anything. Anyone that's spent any time following lions around knows they don't kill an ungulate every week. A deer will last a lion a week, it likely won't need to hunt for days after. Elk (cow) will last two weeks. Lions pretty commonly go a week or so without making a kill after a good feed.


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[30338]

Bet you're right. Those mountain lions here are looking for badgers and those other studies are wrong.

 

[cmahoney]

Another factor, especially in the Sierras and northwest California where the bear populations are extremely high are the Lion kills getting poached by bears. I don’t ever see a fox for this in CA.

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[Kootenay Hunter]

If there was a single problem and a silver bullet, most F&G would have solved it by now.

Everything needs attention and management. To the states that have banned predator hunting but allow hunting of other species, they are not practicing proper wildlife management period.