This noob is having a hard time tuning...

KBC

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Hello there, looking for a little advice.
Just to get the numbers out of the way, I'm shooting a PSE dream season decree around 68-70 lbs, Gold tip hunter 300 spine arrows and 125 grain heads with a 29.5" draw length and 30" arrows.

With the bow set up (timing, no cam lean and centre shot) by the local shop I get tail low and left tears. With a bare shaft the tears are a 35 degree-ish angle about 4" long shooting through paper 6-7 feet away. My broad heads and bare shafts with field points hit high and right compared to my fletched arrows with field points. I can see the bare shafts swing way tail left when I shoot them.

The local shop's instructor had a look at my form and thought it was pretty good but I have tried changing my grip anyways to as many different ways that I can and although it does have minor effects on the tears, they are always low left.

I can get most of the tear out by twisting the yokes (adding to the left and taking out of the right) and bumping the rest, but there ends up being a lot of cam lean and I'm shocked I don't get fletching contact with how far I have to drop the rest to bring the tail up and even move it a bit right to help the cam lean.

I have tried 85 gr points to see if I'm under-spined and the tears were almost identical. I've had the same results on two sets of strings and 2 different D loops on the current set of strings.

Is this the point where I have to swap limbs as I've read some people talk about? Should I just go with a lower profile fletching that's a bit longer to give me some more room to adjust the rest?

I'm pretty confident it isn't form related since I've tried so many different grips and can consistently get the same or similar low left tears. Is my bow just not that great?

At least I have time before next archery season to figure it out ;)
If you read this far, hit me up for a beer if you ever make it out my way.
 

Rob5589

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First thought; get everything squared up, no cam lean, try a 250 & 100 grain head, see what you get.
 
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Brendan

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Before you go crazy, set everything back to spec first. I'd verify by shooting fixed blades vs. field points at distance too.

What's your insert weight? You could be bordering on a weak spine reaction with that long an arrow at your draw length and weight. Might be worth turning the bow down to 60 - 65# for testing... Easy to do.
 
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Ian Ketterman

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If it is showing weak spine, trim an inch of your arrows. Typically you can get an arrow a little shorter than your draw and help with spine
 
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What kind of rest are you shooting? Can you take a picture of the top cam so we can look at the lean? Like the other have said. If it was my bow. I would take everything off and start from scratch. If you don't have the tools to do that, it sounds like you have a good shop. Go talk to them.



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5MilesBack

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I'd reset your rest so your arrow is level and your centershot is good, and then I'd add a twist at a time to the control cable until you get rid of the vertical tear. You can also remove a twist from the buss cable as well. This will get you level, and most times will also improve your horizontal tears. Then fine tune with your yokes. If this doesn't work, then it's your grip.

I'd be shooting your BS and fletched at 20 yards and shoot them several times to make sure you're consistently gripping (i.e. they're both impacting the same every time). It doesn't take much on your grip to even completely flip your results around to the opposite.
 

fatlander

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Fix one thing first, then fix the other.

I’d first set your rest to factory center shot and have the arrow running dead level.

Then add half twists to the control cable until you’re tail low issue is fixed.

Next you’re going to fix your horizontal issues. If you’re impacting nick right, you’re going to add twists to the right yoke and take twists out of the left.

Make sure you’re getting repeatable results. If you’re not getting the same results every time, you need to fix your grip first. Also, if you’ve only tried this with one arrow, you need to try with more. It may be a nock tuning issue as well.


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Beendare

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I'd reset your rest so your arrow is level and your centershot is good, and then I'd add a twist at a time to the control cable until you get rid of the vertical tear. You can also remove a twist from the buss cable as well. This will get you level, and most times will also improve your horizontal tears. Then fine tune with your yokes. If this doesn't work, then it's your grip.

I'd be shooting your BS and fletched at 20 yards and shoot them several times to make sure you're consistently gripping (i.e. they're both impacting the same every time). It doesn't take much on your grip to even completely flip your results around to the opposite.
Good tip^. important to see if you are getting the same result...even if its out of tune.

....
 
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KBC

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Thanks for the help guys. Regarding the possible weak spine I did shoot with 85 gr points as well and get only slightly shorter tears, maybe 1/4"-3/8" shorter.

I bought a dozen arrows at the beginning of summer and out of the dozen 6 of them grouped great, I nock tuned the rest and ended up with 9 or 10 that group really well. The fletched arrow I'm using is one of the 6 and so is the bare shaft that I'm using.

I will find some time over the next week and mess with the control and buss cable. I made a draw board and have one of the cheap cable presses with some homemade brackets. I'd prefer to figure this out rather than taking it in.
 
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KBC

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Forgot to mention, I have a rip cord ace drop away rest.
 
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KBC

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I'd reset your rest so your arrow is level and your centershot is good, and then I'd add a twist at a time to the control cable until you get rid of the vertical tear. You can also remove a twist from the buss cable as well. This will get you level, and most times will also improve your horizontal tears. Then fine tune with your yokes. If this doesn't work, then it's your grip.

I'd be shooting your BS and fletched at 20 yards and shoot them several times to make sure you're consistently gripping (i.e. they're both impacting the same every time). It doesn't take much on your grip to even completely flip your results around to the opposite.

Would changing the twists in the buss cable and control cable affect timing? Or is it the same as yoke tuning where you adjust one and do the opposite to the other to keep your ATA the same?

Im listening to the Kifarucast on arrow tuning right now and sounds like my spine is a bit weak. I will try and get the vertical part of the year out first and then move on to messing with my arrows.
 

Brendan

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Changing twists in buss and control do affect timing.

Generally I set draw length and draw weight first, then set timing, then see if timing needs to be adjusted to achieve a perfect tune.

Also, what way were you adjusting your rest when you tried to fix the tear?
 
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KBC

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One movement at a time but I moved the rest down and right towards the riser.
 

Brendan

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Ok, I concur with everyone else. Re-set to centershot and no cam lean. Check for fletching contact. And try dropping the poundage before tuning just to test spine. Could save you a lot of headaches by ruling a couple things out
 
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Ag111

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I would bet $$ that your spine is fine, I have a very similar setup to you.

This is what I would do in your situation...

1) set things back to factory centershot and nock point. Research what this is yourself and make sure the bow tech does it right, or do it yourself.
2) check cam timing on draw board. This will throw off nock travel if not perfect. Nock travel sometimes shows up as a left or right tear.
3)check rest for clearance issues
4) have someone else shoot the bow through paper to make sure it isn’t you
5)yoke tune the bow (or shim top binary cam) to find best bareshaft flight at 25 yards. Make small adjustments until you can bareshaft an arrow perfect at 40+ yards.
6) screw on a Broadhead and check poi.

My experience is that you can get away with a little under or over spine if the bow is tuned well. Good luck and let us know how it goes

My set up is a 360 ibo obsession @ 73lbs and 29.5” DL. 300 spine arrows with 125 Broadheads and 40 grain outsert, overall arrow length over 30 inches. Had a hell of a time tuning until I bought a bow press and draw board. Played around with shims on the top cam until I could get bullet holes with a bareshaft at 50 yards. I’m not a great archer or Bowhunter so anyone can learn to tune, just takes patience and know how. All my “tuning” before that was moving the rest around. Had to take the bow WAY out of spec it was ridiculously get BHs to tune. Much simpler now that I figured out what to do. Archery is a lot more fun now haha.
 
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KBC

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I spent some time tonight messing with things. I reset the rest for what looks to be good for centre shot and twisted things until there was no cam lean. The d loop seemed tight on the nocks so I cut it off and tied my first d loop with a little play on a nock. So far that made almost all of the nock low tear disappear. Nock pinch or was I not as close re-tying it to the same spot?

I shot through paper with 125 grain, 85 grain and no point with both fletched and bare shaft arrows. All the tears were pretty much the same so I don't think the spine is my issue.

Maybe tomorrow night I'll get some time and mess with it a bit more.
 
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KBC

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It's closer but not quite there. I'm not getting any fletching contact but I'm getting a tail left tear with fletched arrows and bare shafts are about an arrow width tail low.

I had to put a bunch of cam lean into it to get the bare shaft tail left tear out. I'm starting to think I'm making this into an excuse to buy a new bow... My wife didn't even roll her eyes when I mentioned it hahahaha
 
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