Thomson Outfitters - Pinedale Area - Unit 95

Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
91
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Did you just write 3 paragraphs bitching about a backpack? ...FYI for your future hunts, maybe stick to ranch and lodge. Cause ANY horseback outfitter is going to limit your backpack weight or not let you ride with one at all. Do you know where a horses kidneys lie? Do you know anything about how to ride properly and keep weight off their back? I doubt it, therefore when you also are wearing a backpack causing you to sit in the saddle like a dead weight bag, it can easily bruise a horses kidneys, and leave them crippled for a long time... but you sound like the type of guy who could care less about the health of the animal who carried your ass all day.

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I can share my experience with Thomson Outfittiers specifically on this topic.

Different hunt unit & camp, different guides but same Outfitter. Never met Todd before we packed up to go to the mountains with the cook, guides and other hunters. I am a dude that just hired him to take me hunting like you.

Knowing I was going on a guided, horseback hunt I never considered taking a frame pack since they have horses to haul the meat out. I had multiple conversations with Todd prior to booking but I never considered bringing a frame pack and I assumed I could bring a daypack. Being old and from 1000 foot elevation, I WANTED to carry the smallest possible daypack knowing I had a guide with knives and a horse to pack out the meat. So I had zero discussion about Framepacks, Daypacks, Fannypacks prior to booking. Obviously I have no idea what was and wasn't said during LRJammers conversations so I wont comment on that.

I booked assuming I would bring a small daypack (1500 cubic inches to be exact).

Just like LRJ, Todd requested I send the money for the Non Resident Special tag. Not clear if LRJ understands how the two tag system in Wyoming works. It has nothing to do with "Special Access"...they have two drawings, the Regular and a higher priced Special Drawing Pool. The assumption, and in MOST cases, the reality is the more expensive Special pool has fewer applicants and the draw odds are better. IN MOST CASES. Wyoming figures a certain % of people will pay more to increase their odds. It doesn't always work that way. Obviously Todd wants you to draw a tag vs. leave him with a empty spot in camp...so he suggests the client puts in for the Special draw. In LRJ's case this had sound logic. 2021 is the last season published by WG&F, and the year I hunted with Todd (I was in unit 98 Type 1). In 2021, had you put in for the lower priced Regular drawing, with 6 points you were 52% (50/50) to draw a tag between the Pref Points and Randon opportunity and 100% to draw with over 6 points. So Todd had 50/50 odds his hunter doesn't draw and he ends up with a empty spot in camp. In 2020, a hunter in the Regular pool was 100% to draw with 5 points. Demand for hunts out west exploded after COVID and draw odds went down most everywhere out west from 2020 to 2021 to 2022.

In 2021, there was the oddity that cannot be predicted in Wyoming Unit 95....the reason I said MOST above... more people put in for the Special (Higher Priced Tags) and it also took over 6 points in the Special Drawing to be 100% and at 6 points a person was only 15% to draw. You actually had a better chance to draw Unit 95 with 6 points on the Regular draw than you did in the Special draw...this is a very unsual thing in Wyoming but it happens here and there.

So the outfitters are playing Russian Roulette as to if they have a full camp or open spots when booking people that are close to where the draw hit the year before....and they will ALL...ALWAYS...want their hunters to be in the higher priced Special drawing. There is nothing unsual or underhanded about that. It is just reality.

In my case, I was putting in for Unit 98 with 8 points and the 3 years before, in the lower priced draw, 5 points was 100% in the lower priced drawing and 3/4 points was 100% to draw in the Special. It was obvious I would draw in either drawing so Todd agreed to put me in the Regular draw.

Some people would say "You wasted your points". For me, I wanted to hunt that year as it fit my schedule and budget and using my points meant that I could get the tag for approx $650 less...so to me I didn't "waste" my points...I used them to save appoximately $650 on my over all hunt cost.

Just like Mr. LRJ, I also got Todd's mid-summer letter and in the letter he mentioned that he limits his hunters on horseback hunts to a small daypack or fanny pack that can be hung over the saddle horn, not worn on the back for the reason listed in the post above...kidney damage to the horses. I was perfectly fine with that since I planned on a small daypack anyway.

As far as shooting, I go prone over my pack on longer shots. I go over a rock or log with my pack or rolled coat as a rest or leaning against a tree for shots inside 200 yards. I killed my first elk from kneeling position, 1 elbow on my knee at 80 yards. I am good sitting on my ass legs crossed (Indian style) with both elbows on my knees out to 200 yards. If I can't do any of that...I pass the shot and try to get closer. 95% of the guys that go elk hunting have not practiced taking shots from the kneeling and sitting positions. I don't carry any shooting aids, other than when Antelope hunting (much lower elevation, less steep country and always on foot not horseback). I have a bi-pod on my Speed Goat gun. Can't fit a bipod in a scabbard nor do I want to lug the extra weight in the mountains....hence me leaning to shoot without one in the mountains

I got to camp (great people) and just like LJR, I was told not to bring my daypack when hunting. I will admit, I was a bit surprised as I like to have one for a extra coat layer (Compressable down) when stopping to glass and a couple water bottles and as a rest in the right situations and the letter stated I could. After a SHORT and NOT HEATED discussion the guide saw the size pack I had (small) and I showed him I could hang it on the saddle horn, the guide said "Don't worry about it. Bring your pack if you want it". He had a fanny pack with knives etc. in it hanging on his saddle horn.

In the end, I shot my nice but not a whopper 6x5 bull, resting my gun on my pack over a large boulder..at FOURTY yards.
3 guys in the two camps shot bulls bigger than mine. A woman in camp wounded one that was a good one (unfortunately not recovered). They were there. I had a opportunity at a 300-310” class 6x6 bull opening morning but just could not get a shot I felt good about as he was behind some blowdown and never gave me the opporuntity. I still "woulda, coulda, shoulda" what we could have/should have done on that bull opening morning.

Would I hunt with Todd again. Yes. The camp, food and people were all great. The whole experience of being in a back country pack in elk camp was what I was looking for...and I got it. But I would hunt the season I hunted (Type 1 not General), in Unit 95 from one of his two wilderness camps there.. Problem is....I probably won't. Just because I have other hunts for Mule deer and elk in other states and I have other plans for my Wyoming Elk points when I get back to 4/5 points.

Sorry to hear LRJ was not happy with his hunt with Thomson. I was happy with my hunt with them.
 
Last edited:

LRJammer

FNG
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
Messages
36
Location
SW United States
I can share my experience with Thomson Outfittiers specifically on this topic.

Different hunt unit & camp, different guides but same Outfitter.

Knowing I was going on a guided, horseback hunt I never considered taking a frame pack since they have horses to haul the meat out. I had multiple conversations with Todd prior to booking but I never dreamed of bringing a frame pack and I assumed I could bring a daypack. Being old and from 1000 foot elevation, I WANTED to carry the smallest possible daypack knowing I had a guide with knives and a horse to pack out the meat. So I had zero discussion about Framepacks, Daypacks, Fannypacks prior to booking. Obviously I have no idea what was and wasn't said during LRJammers conversations so I wont comment on that.

I booked assuming I would bring a small daypack (1500 cubic inches to be exact).

Just like LRJ, Todd requested I send the money for the Non Resident Special tag. Not clear of LRJ understand the two tag system in Wyoming. It has nothing to do with "Special Access"...they have two drawings, the Regular and a higher priced Special Drawing Pool. The assumption, and in MOST cases, the reality is the more expensive Special pool has fewer applicants and the draw odds are better. Obviously Todd wants you to draw so he suggests the client puts in for the Special draw. In LRJ's case this had sound logic. 2021 is the last season published by WG&F, and the year I hunted with Todd (I was in unit 98 Type 1). In 2021, had you put in for the lower priced Regular drawing, with 6 points you were 52% (50/50) to draw a tag between the Pref Points and Randow opportunites and 100% to draw with over 6 points. So Todd had 50/50 odds his hunter doesn't draw and he ends up with a empty spot in camp. In 2020, a hunter in the Regular pool was 100% to draw with 5 points.

In 2021, there was the thing that cannot be predicted....the reason I said MOST above... more people put in for the Special (Higher Priced Tags) and it also took over 6 points in the Special Drawing to be 100% and at 6 points a person was only 15% to draw. You actually had a better chance to draw Unit 95 with 6 points than you did in the Special draw...but this is a very unsual thing in Wyoming.

So the outfitters are playing Russian Roulette as to if they have a full camp or open spots with people that are close to where the draw hit the year before....and they will ALL...ALWAYS...want their hunters to be in the higher priced Special drawing. There is nothing unsual or underhanded about that. It is just reality.

In my case, I was putting in for Unit 98 with 8 points and the 3 years before, in the lower priced draw, 5 points was 100% in the lower priced drawing and 3/4 points was 100% to draw in the Special. It was obvious I would draw in either drawing so Todd agreed to put me in the Regular draw.

Some people would say "You wasted your points". For me, I wanted to hunt that year as it fit my schedule and budget and using my points meant that I could get the tag for approx $650 less...so to me I didn't "waste" my points...I used them to save appoximately $650 on my over all hunt cost.

Just like Mr. LRJ, I also got Todd's mid-summer letter and in the letter he mentioned that he limits his hunters on horseback hunts to a small daypack or fanny pack that can be hung over the saddle horn, not worn on the back for the reason listed in the post above...kidney damage to the horses. I was perfectly fine with that since I planned on a small daypack anyway.

As far as shooting, I go prone over my pack on longer shots. I go over a rock or log with my pack or rolled coat as a rest or leaning against a tree for shots inside 200 yards. I killed my first elk from kneeling position, 1 elbow on my knee at 80 yards. I am good sitting on my ass legs crossed (Indian style) with both elbows on my knees out to 200 yards. If I can't do any of that...I pass the shot and try to get closer. 95% of the guys that go elk hunting have not practiced taking shots from the kneeling and sitting positions. I don't carry any shooting aids, other than when Antelope hunting (much lower elevation and always on foot not horseback, I have a bi-pod on my Speed Goat gun. Can't fit a bipod in a scabbard....hence me leaning to shoot without one in the mountains

I got to camp (great people) and just like LJR, I was told not to bring my daypack when hunting. I will admit, I was a bit surprised as I like to have one for a extra coat layer (Compressable down) when stopping to glass and a couple water bottles and as a rest in the right situations and the letter stated I could. After a SHORT and NOT HEATED discussion where the guide saw the size pack I had (small) and I showed him I could hang it on the saddle horn, the guide said "Don't worry about it. Bring your pack if you wanted. He had a fanny pack with knives in it hanging on his saddle horn.

In the end, I shot my 6x5 bull, resting my gun on my pack over a large boulder..at FOURTY yards.

The camp, food and people were all great. I had a opportunity at a 300" class bull opening morning but just could not get a shot I felt good about as he was behind some blowdown and never gave me the opporuntity. I still "woulda, coulda, shoulda" what we could have/should have done on that bull opening morning.

Would I hunt with Todd again. Yes....but I would hunt the season I hunted, in Unit 95 from one of his two camps there.. Problem is....I probably won't. Just because I have other hunts for Mule deer and elk in other states and I have other plans for my Wyoming Elk points when I get back to 4/5 points.
The practice of not wearing packs while riding and hanging it on the saddle horn was a given from my perspective. That seems to be pretty standard practice within the industry.
 

Roguer53

FNG
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
Messages
26
I Just finished a rifle hunt with Thomson outfitters myself and felt I my experience with them justifies commentary.

Before booking my hunt, I had a telephone conversation with Todd to get a feel for his demeanor and as a few questions. One of those questions was about what size of a pack he felt would be necessary. I have a medium sized frame pack, but was pretty sure it was more than needed for a horseback hunt. He said that most any normal daypack would be sufficient so that is what I purchased. I made my deposit and shortly after the 1st of the year, I sent him a check for the special access tag that is roughly 2x a normal non-resident tag. Shortly thereafter I made a payment for the 1st half of my balance. In mid July, I got an envelope from him about the upcoming hunt in the fall. Within that was a document stating that any backpacks that were carried during the day needed to be less than 10 lbs! His reasoning is that the extra weight was wearing down his animals! The real irony is that most of his animals are rented, not owned by him. With even a fairly lightweight pack, just add a little bit of water, and you are over ten pounds! To say I was alarmed by this is an understatement. We had the discussion around this subject without any word of that, but once he had my deposit, burned my 6 points, and half of the remaining balance, suddenly he drops this BS on us! At this point, he had my money and my points were now gone and I had no recourse.

When asked about it, his only response was an absolutely arrogant statement that "Nobody needs a backpack to hunt elk" and if you need a backpack, you probably shouldnt be hunting elk! Apparently he saw himself as the sole arbiter of what everyone does and doesnt need on a hunt, as if everyone's needs are all the same! I had worked out and trained all summer with trekking poles as I have bad knees and they really helped me a lot. There were a few items I had practiced shooting with all summer that I had planned for. I had the Quick Stix attachment for my trekking poles and a lightweight pair of shooting sticks for quick, impromptu shots. Things that like those are absolutely needed in country were a 500+ yd shot is commonplace.

When I went to go on my hunt, I had paired my pack down to a bare minimum with water in a Nalgene bottle to go into the horse's saddle bags. When my guide (Todd's brother. All of the guides in the camp were either his brothers or nephews) sees my pack on the first morning and throws an absolute temper tantrum! Only when I suggested that he take a breath and attempt to engage in an adult conversation did he finally calm down and reveal what was apparently the newest decree from Todd: No backpacks allowed, at all! Period! If he had made that restriction clearly up front, I would have simply moved on to another outfitter without a second thought, but that is NOT what he did.

At this point, I more or less knew that there was virtually nothing that I could do. He had manipulated the circumstances so that it was too late to do anything about it. To stay that Todd is NOT a stand-up guy is a dramatic understatement. Everyone was reduced to what they could carry in their clothing pockets and bino packs. No exceptions. I know of several guys that had no choice to make marginal shots because they were in a position with no support for shots. Even worse, the guides were not permitted to carry spotting scopes or shooting sticks either! I was very temped to not tip the guide after his little temper tantrum but in the end, I decided not to punish him for Todd's chicken shit behavior. The camp jack and horse wrangler were good guys that I was also happy to tip. I know of another hunter in camp that was also much less than impressed by the experience that did tip what he thought was appropriate given all of the other issues and got the honor of getting his ass chewed out by Todd because he didnt think he tipped him enough! Pretty insane given that his restrictions contributed to the problems that resulted in that. Apparently he chooses to ignore his written word when in suits his needs as he did with the backpacks, as well as the tipping that was ostensibly "Entirely Optional"!

To say that I will not be hunting with Thomson Outfitters again is a dramatic understatement. I just hope this is able to help others avoid these issues.
Thanks for the review
 
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