Thumb release draw length increase

[Eagle]

Yes, you can make adjustments on your back half to shoot the same draw length on your bow.... but it doesn't change the fact that your draw length could have changed.

I switched from a trigger release anchoring the crotch between my thumb and index finger on my jawbone to a tension release anchoring the backside of my hand with my index and middle finger split on my jaw. Same contact point on my nose and corner of my mouth... draw length increased 1/2".

Too many variables to say it stays the same or not. Ed F

I experienced the same 1/2" increase for the exact same reason.

 

[dkime]

Im going to skip a lot of details here, but yes you will need to change your DL setting on the bow.

Now for some details

The point of a DL adjustment is to put yourself in a position that predisposes you to better biomechanics. AKA can you hold the bow steady? What does your float pattern look like? Can you lock in at full draw and handle the amount of holding weight you are shooting? Can you execute a shot properly time and time again? The head position of a release is something that is a big P.I.T.A. when it comes to finding one that "fits" your draw length. I shoot a Scott Anchor at a measured 29" DL, I shoot a Scott Sigma at the same DL. If I switched to a Scott Longhorn I drop the DL 1/8" If I shoot a Scott Talon or Similar release I drop 1/2" on my DL. It's simple when you watch someone shoot these releases one after another. You will watch the back side elbow begin to swing further and further behind the head of the archer, thus changing the alignment of the shooter. Because an accurate shot is one where the shooter expands in an opposing direction of the shot, rear elbow position mitigates torque on the bow. (Ignoring riser twist) Frankly, most index finger releases are way too long for most people to shoot at accurate DLs and maintain a consistent anchor point at short ATA bows, (Hence the Dan Evans nose button, that I believe other companies are making now). Why is backside elbow position important? The direction that your forearm is pointing is the direction that your broadheads will be predisposed to impact, relative of your field points. Too long of a DL creates a forearm that is angled pointing right for a RH shooter, which is why most RH people struggle with getting their BH to group with their left impacting fieldpoints. You can tune a bow to do anything you want, and their is a lot of good rules to get your DL close, but there is a reason why high level target archers manipulate their strings and cables down to the 1/16" on DL, it makes a huge difference in accuracy over the course of time.

 

[Brendan]

@dkime - I agree with pretty much all of your points in the details, but disagree with your conclusion when it comes to DL. I still maintain that NO you should not necessarily change the draw length. Hear me out, as always, the devil is in the details...

I agree that proper biomechanics are critical to the best possible setup - float, stabiliity, alignment, and agree with everything you said about the rear elbow and arm alignment. But here's what you missed. Your front arm and shoulder have an ideal position for proper biomechanics, proper anchor points are important for consistency, and there are other ways to deal with rear arm / elbow alignment.

Let's say you start out with a "Textbook" form on the front side. Straight arm but not hyperextended, knuckles at 45 degree angle, hand relaxed, arm parallel to the ground, shoulder not collapsed, head straight up and down and not tipping forward or back with the string contacting the very tip of your nose with light pressure. I'll use your example, let's say you switch to a Scott Talon and drop your DL 1/2". Then, you either lose anchor points on your nose and/or the corner of your mouth which is bad for consistency and repeatability, or you have to tip your head forward to the string, or you have to collapse your shoulder or bend your arm which is bad for stability and float. A better solution in my book would be to either use a shorter D-Loop, shorten the neck on the release, or if needed, use a bow with a steeper string angle in the first place that allows you more flexibility with D-Loop and anchor. Personally - it's why I prefer long AtA bows, handheld releases with no neck (picture coming) and why I run my wrist releases extremely short (picture coming). As they all give you the flexibility of running your anchor further forward while maintaining "correct" draw length, and then adjusting rearward as needed using D-Loop.

So - basically, I don't think compromising the front arm and shoulder or your anchor / reference points is the right solution to get your rear elbow and arm in the right place.

Now, if someone has a short ATA bow with steep string angle that they're not changing, already runs a pretty short D-Loop, and wants to use a handheld or a wrist with a longer neck - then you might be S.O.L., but adjusting form via the DL has other downstream compromises

(And Before anyone jumps all over me, there are also exceptions for arm clearance with heavy clothes, shoulder or biomechanical problems, etc.... There's always an exception)

 

[dkime]

@Brendan I think we’re saying the same thing I may have just breezed passed a few points. I agree that an archer should never compromise the front half, and that by shortening your DL you’re completely changing things. But honestly by changing releases you’re probably changing just as many things (not always, my Sigma and Anchor hit POI so I know it’s not true for everyone) I run a short D loop already though so changing that based on releases isn’t going to work for me especially if one breaks in the middle of a tournament. I manipulate my Loop length based on my shot timing and ease of execution. If my hold is steady but I can’t get the shot off in what I feel Is an appropriate amount of time I change my loop, same thing could be done with shortening the DL a little bit too but this is just what I Do. The changing on an anchor point certainly can happen when changing DLs but like you said it depends a lot on ATA of the bow, and what distance you have your peep height set to for comfort. If i set my peep height to a 20yd “zero” while shooting indoors and then change my DL it’ll cause my head position to change, thus needing to reestablish my peep height anyways. Again, I think we’re saying the same thing. Leave the front half alone, and simply change the length of the hypotenuse and door swing angle of your back arm to get things back in line.




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[bowuntr]

You're not saying the same thing... Ed F

 

[Piscatory_4]

Is changing anchor points smart? Doesn't everyone have one ideal anchor point based on skeletal geometry and feel? It just feels right when I anchor with index knuckle behind jaw bone, seems wrong if I try anchoring at corner of mouth etc.

 

[Brendan]

Is changing anchor points smart? Doesn't everyone have one ideal anchor point based on skeletal geometry and feel? It just feels right when I anchor with index knuckle behind jaw bone, seems wrong if I try anchoring at corner of mouth etc.

No, I don't think there's a such thing as one ideal anchor point. Look at it this way - anchoring the same with an index trigger wrist strap and a two finger thumb button is physically impossible, right? So, unless you can argue that one is "better" than the other, then it pretty much proves that the anchor is a byproduct of something else.

My opinion: Most important is correct form and biomechanics that you can repeat - that skeletal geometry you're talking about. Find a draw length that gives you good form and consistency on the front side with reliable reference points like tip of your nose and/or corner of your mouth without being overextended. Then, a combination of D-loop, release, and anchor help you get good form and consistency on the back end with repeatability and the rear arm position @dkime was talking about...

Take the two together - and you've got the "best" overall. My whole point is - don't change the draw length without understanding you're compromising one part of your "ideal" form.

And again - There are always exceptions. If I shoot my 28" Triax, it's just not nearly as comfortable for me as my 35" RX1 Ultra, or my 40" TRX7 no matter what I do with it. And when I'm sitting in a saddle 30' up a tree in december feeling like the michelin man, that's an entire different setup for me than what I'm shooting in September during Elk Season.

 

[Marble]

The one thing I think about when changing anything in my set up is, "change one thing, change everything."

 

[Castronova]

Interesting reading. I'm just starting to shoot a bow and have switched back and forth from a TruBall wrist release to a Nock 2 It every time I shoot without changing the DL and find no discernible difference in my shooting. Can't even figure out which one I like more. For each one I just anchor a little differently on my face.

 

[5MilesBack]

Obviously if you change to a handheld thumb release.......AND expect to keep your same anchor point, then ya.......you'd need to lengthen the draw length. But that wouldn't be the correct way to do it. Change your anchor instead of smashing the string into your face. LOL.