Tipping a guide ?

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I’ve moved away from a percentage for the most part as it is a purely arbitrary number that has no bearing on actual effort nor value delivered.

The amount of effort and difficulty to hunt Coues ($5k), desert mule deer ($10k+), or even mule deer on the Jicarilla ($20k) is about the same. But using the “norms” I’d pay $1k, $2k, and $4k for no difference in work done by the guide (all things being equal including using the same guide).

A guide will get a flat fee from me ranging from $100-200 per day (for entirety of hunt) depending on general effort and difficulty of the hunt. I always bring plenty of extra cash just in case.

EDIT: I guess if guides get overly sensitive, we can always just 1099 them.

 

[j_volt]

No one is holding your feet to the fire for a 20% tip on a guided hunt. There is a general range of 10%-20% which is considered the norm. But to stiff a guide that does a great job because you don’t believe in tipping is just a scumbag move, and I wouldn’t foresee that outfitter booking you ever again.

As I have said, I do tip, but it still makes no sense. It’s illogical that clients are terrible for not tipping, but it’s fine for outfitters to not pay a living wage to guides.

 

[j_volt]

I still think my guide from my last trip owes me a tip. Every other hunter in camp was more than double my age, and the guide didn’t have a rangefinder. He ranged the elk I shot as”far as f*ck” which just so happens to be ~400 yards. We were done in a day and he promptly went home 7 days early because I had a rangefinder and could shoot “far as f*ck”.

I tipped him 10%. Joking about him owing me a tip.

 

[mtwarden]

I’ve moved away from a percentage for the most part as it is a purely arbitrary number that has no bearing on actual effort nor value delivered.

The amount of effort and difficulty to hunt Coues ($5k), desert mule deer ($10k+), or even mule deer on the Jicarilla ($20k) is about the same. But using the “norms” I’d pay $1k, $2k, and $4k for no difference in work done by the guide (all things being equal including using the same guide).

A guide will get a flat fee from me ranging from $100-200 per day (for entirety of hunt) depending on general effort and difficulty of the hunt. I always bring plenty of extra cash just in case.

EDIT: I guess if guides get overly sensitive, we can always just 1099 them.

My thoughts as well; if a guide works his tail off on a 7 day mule deer/elk hunt and another equally so on a sheep hunt, I don't see the fairness in a sheep guide garnering three times the tip

 

[Doc Holliday]

My thoughts as well; if a guide works his tail off on a 7 day mule deer/elk hunt and another equally so on a sheep hunt, I don't see the fairness in a sheep guide garnering three times the tip

I have been on a sheep/caribou, etc. hunt up north, and asked the outfitter what a good tip was. He told me, and I was shocked how low it was, because I did go into it (being ignorant) thinking in terms of a %. .

Bottom line is, on all hunts, but especially on 30K-70K sheep hunts, ask your outfitter what a good tip is. They want their guides to be happy, so they will give you a good range to work with.

 

[WCB]

As I have said, I do tip, but it still makes no sense. It’s illogical that clients are terrible for not tipping, but it’s fine for outfitters to not pay a living wage to guides.

What is the living wage...does it not differ from state to state and better yet county to county. Does it not also include # of the household. I have heard very little complaint from guides on pay it is just the guys that don't want to tip that seem to want to defend the poor guides and their pay. Any guide I have ever known or worked with that didn't like the pay went and did something else that paid "better".

For my family where I live the "estimated living wage" would be about $40.40 per hour which at 12hrs a day and 6 days a week = just of $2900 a week. Unless you just want guides to be salaried at 40hrs per week? Do we pay over time also for guides. You hate paying hunt cost plus even 10% wait till you see what hunt costs then.

 

[2buffalo]

I factor a tip into the hunt before I book it so to me it's just part of the cost of the hunt. Roughly $100-$200/day depending how the guide is. If he is an ass and doesn't put in the effort then he gets nothing but I haven't run into that yet.

"Livable wage" is Bernie Sanders code for hand out. In general people make what they are worth.

 

[def90]

Did you read my post? Incentives/awards come in the form of gift cards......its actually quite nice. Walmart, Amazon, Visa cards (as good as cash), Shell gas cards.......

Landlords and GMAC don't accept gift cards as payment.

Don't confuse the guides with the resort owner/operators.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

What is the living wage...does it not differ from state to state and better yet county to county. Does it not also include # of the household. I have heard very little complaint from guides on pay it is just the guys that don't want to tip that seem to want to defend the poor guides and their pay. Any guide I have ever known or worked with that didn't like the pay went and did something else that paid "better".

For my family where I live the "estimated living wage" would be about $40.40 per hour which at 12hrs a day and 6 days a week = just of $2900 a week. Unless you just want guides to be salaried at 40hrs per week? Do we pay over time also for guides. You hate paying hunt cost plus even 10% wait till you see what hunt costs then.

I am sure that the esteemed guides are completely honest and report 100% of their tips to the various tax authorities.

You want mandatory 20% then I will report it to the IRS and any other tax agency as income.

 

[GringoBling]

If you think the customary 10%-20% tip is too much, why doesn't the individual just go on hunts/fishing trips that don't require a guide? Don't have to tip anything on a DIY hunt/fishing trip.

Where did I ever state that 10% is too much?? Read my post again....carefully. The only I amount that I stated is 20%.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Where did I ever state that 10% is too much?? Read my post again....carefully. The only I amount that I stated is 20%.

Speaking as a licensed outfitter since 1991 , any tip from 10-20% is much appreciated, my guides get a per dileum of $150-$200 + room & board durng the season
they work their ass’s off from before a hunter wakes till they lay down to sleep!!
don’t forget the camp staff on a hunt

 

[doc holiday13]

not to sound like the non-tipper, but why should I give a guide more money? Maybe if he went above and beyond in some sort of out of the ordinary situation. But if a guide is relying on getting a tip... Maybe... Just maybe, he should raise the price of his hunt. If you're not making money at your base price, then you're doing something wrong. Yes i understand you need to pay your cooks, and pay for feed for horse, etc.. But thats called budgeting and business economics..
Food=x
Cook=y
property lease per hunt= Z
Base hourly rate for however long the hunt is + base fee= M

X+Y+Z+M= price of the hunt

Think of it this way.. If you have a 5 day hunt and tag out your client on day 2 then you made some cash.

i know this might sound preposterous and "a guide has to make some money" but i'm being serious. I'm not paying you for "how good the food is". I'm paying you to put me on my animal of choice. The effort you put into knowing where the animals are should be included in your base fee

Now.. I know what I just posted is going to rub some people the wrong way, but I'll conclude this post by saying I do tip but demanding a tip is not going to get you a referral

 

[Augie]

not to sound like the non-tipper, but why should I give a guide more money? Maybe if he went above and beyond in some sort of out of the ordinary situation. But if a guide is relying on getting a tip... Maybe... Just maybe, he should raise the price of his hunt. If you're not making money at your base price, then you're doing something wrong. Yes i understand you need to pay your cooks, and pay for feed for horse, etc.. But thats called budgeting and business economics..
Food=x
Cook=y
property lease per hunt= Z
Base hourly rate for however long the hunt is + base fee= M

X+Y+Z+M= price of the hunt

Think of it this way.. If you have a 5 day hunt and tag out your client on day 2 then you made some cash.

i know this might sound preposterous and "a guide has to make some money" but i'm being serious. I'm not paying you for "how good the food is". I'm paying you to put me on my animal of choice. The effort you put into knowing where the animals are should be included in your base fee

Now.. I know what I just posted is going to rub some people the wrong way, but I'll conclude this post by saying I do tip but demanding a tip is not going to get you a referral

The guide is relying on the tip because more often than not the guide is not the outfitter. The outfitter is the owner and the guide works for the outfitter guiding clients. Also if the outfitter just raises the cost of the hunt to offset a client needing to tip then everyone on this entire forum would bellyache about how a particular outfitter is too expensive and they’ll book with someone else. There’s no appeasing everyone. Pure and simple people complain about having to tip because they want the best of everything but never wanna pay for it. I have seen clients get pissed and stiff a guide for not punching a tag when the guide basically has to drag their fat butt up the hill and then the client missed 3 shots on an animal from sub 100 yards.

 

[doc holiday13]

Augie, while I do hear your argument.. Its still the same argument as the kid at the coffee shop who's demanding a tip. Why the hell am i going to drop an extra dollar in your pocket for pouring a cup of coffee for me? I paid you for a service and you held up your end of the bargain by giving me a cup of coffee. Now, will I drop an extra dollar in your pocket if you deliver me the same cup of coffee every day with consistency and are genuinely good at your job.. Yeah I will

But a guide, just like the kid in the coffee shop, needs to know his value.. Not making enough with his outfitter? Ask for more money or go to another outfitter OR become an outfitter.

*edit for extra info

Yes I do get a bonus or two every year, I don't expect it; but I do work for it. But i don't budget on my bonus like Chevy Chase's character in Christmas Vacation and buy a pool before I get my bonus. A guide should operate the same way

 

[WCB]

It basically comes down to this:

If you don't want to tip or don't agree with the outfitting/guide payment structure don't go on a guided trip OR tell the outfitter you are just going to write the final check for $100 a day more than the total and then the tip is included in the cost at a predetermined amount just like if tipping went away and the outfitter raised the price to pay his guides "better".

I am sure that the esteemed guides are completely honest and report 100% of their tips to the various tax authorities.

You want mandatory 20% then I will report it to the IRS and any other tax agency as income.

When did I say I wanted a mandatory 20%....you will not find it in anything I wrote above. In fact I turned down tips before so the hunter could take care of the cook and other help. And also tipped out the cook and other help at the end of the season from my own money. You seem to have something against guides?

And from your comments you do seem like a guy that would turn in a guide or waiter or heck even the guy building a deck next door for pocketing some cash.

 

[Augie]

Augie, while I do hear your argument.. Its still the same argument as the kid at the coffee shop who's demanding a tip. Why the hell am i going to drop an extra dollar in your pocket for pouring a cup of coffee for me? I paid you for a service and you held up your end of the bargain by giving me a cup of coffee. Now, will I drop an extra dollar in your pocket if you deliver me the same cup of coffee every day with consistency and are genuinely good at your job.. Yeah I will

But a guide, just like the kid in the coffee shop, needs to know his value.. Not making enough with his outfitter? Ask for more money or go to another outfitter OR become an outfitter.

While I understand your perspective on this I think your argument is pointed at the wrong entity as well as several other posters on here. I much like you believe the cost of the hunt should include extra compensation for the guide instead of relying on tips at the end of the hunt. But people taking it out on the guide who is an employee instead of the outfitter who owns it is my issue. Your fight is with the establishment if you will, the long held structure of the way the guide/outfitter business is operated. It's the same issue people have with American dining compared to the European model.

I agree there is a strange growth in the amount of people/businesses putting out a tip jar asking for extra compensation on a job that doesn't require a lot of difficulty and traditionally hasn't had tips associated with the business model (like a coffee shop). But the time and effort a guide puts in comparatively to most other professions is significantly more. Say they spend 5 days with you on a mountainside in Alaska on a goat/sheep hunt. They are responsible for camp, preparing meals most of the time, knowing the terrain, glassing to find animals, aging the animal to ensure legality, finding a path to the animal, getting you in a spot for a shot or stalk, keeping you safe at all times, field care of the animal, packing out your animal, ect. you get the point. The hours and conditions make it far different than a coffee shop barista looking for an extra dollar handout for pouring a cup of coffee. Again I do believe that cost should be built into the overall hunt cost up front, maybe talk to the outfitter up front about it before you book. But I don't like the idea of punishing a guide because you don't like the structure of an industry business model. Opening up an outfitting business in certain places is no small feat either, so it's not as easy as just going an opening up your own gig where in some places long time outfitters have near exclusive rights to certain hunt areas.

 

[tdhanses]

Did you read my post? Incentives/awards come in the form of gift cards......its actually quite nice. Walmart, Amazon, Visa cards (as good as cash), Shell gas cards.......

Cash is king, gift cards are for presents.

 

[GringoBling]

The guide is relying on the tip because more often than not the guide is not the outfitter. The outfitter is the owner and the guide works for the outfitter guiding clients. Also if the outfitter just raises the cost of the hunt to offset a client needing to tip then everyone on this entire forum would bellyache about how a particular outfitter is too expensive and they’ll book with someone else. There’s no appeasing everyone. Pure and simple people complain about having to tip because they want the best of everything but never wanna pay for it. I have seen clients get pissed and stiff a guide for not punching a tag when the guide basically has to drag their fat butt up the hill and then the client missed 3 shots on an animal from sub 100 yards.

Augie- my Jeep is in the shop right now and it's probably going to cost me a couple grand to get it fixed. Once the Jeep is fixed and I pay my bill of ~$2000, should I then be expected to pay the mechanic, who works for the shop owner, doing the work an extra $400 because the shop owner doesn't pay him enough? Of course not. Your argument clearly suggests that the outfitter is not paying the guide enough money and that the client is responsible for closing that wage gap.

 

[Augie]

Augie- my Jeep is in the shop right now and it's probably going to cost me a couple grand to get it fixed. Once the Jeep is fixed and I pay my bill of ~$2000, should I then be expected to pay the mechanic, who works for the shop owner, doing the work an extra $400 because the shop owner doesn't pay him enough? Of course not. Your argument clearly suggests that the outfitter is not paying the guide enough money and that the client is responsible for closing that wage gap.

You're comparing two different industries where one industry business model encourages a tip and the other does not. It's common practice to pay a tip when you go out to dinner somewhere but it's not common practice to pay a grocery store clerk for bagging groceries. Two different business models. Refer to my previous post to Doc. You're issue is with the establishment not the guide.

 

[tdhanses]

As I have said, I do tip, but it still makes no sense. It’s illogical that clients are terrible for not tipping, but it’s fine for outfitters to not pay a living wage to guides.

Just consider it this way, there are two options pay just the outfitter as it is now orr the outfitter can add a $1500 surcharge for guide fees. They way it is now at least you get to determine the guides value.