Tipping a guide ?

[j_volt]

Just consider it this way, there are two options pay just the outfitter as it is now orr the outfitter can add a $1500 surcharge for guide fees. They way it is now at least you get to determine the guides value.

Guided hunts are referred to as just that, "guided hunts". Whether correct or not, the perceived service being paid for is, in fact, the guiding. There obviously is already a surcharge for guiding as 2x1 and 1x1 hunts do not cost the same. I will keep tipping, but I still think it is stupid

 

[S-3 ranch]

Augie, while I do hear your argument.. Its still the same argument as the kid at the coffee shop who's demanding a tip. Why the hell am i going to drop an extra dollar in your pocket for pouring a cup of coffee for me? I paid you for a service and you held up your end of the bargain by giving me a cup of coffee. Now, will I drop an extra dollar in your pocket if you deliver me the same cup of coffee every day with consistency and are genuinely good at your job.. Yeah I will

But a guide, just like the kid in the coffee shop, needs to know his value.. Not making enough with his outfitter? Ask for more money or go to another outfitter OR become an outfitter.

*edit for extra info

Yes I do get a bonus or two every year, I don't expect it; but I do work for it. But i don't budget on my bonus like Chevy Chase's character in Christmas Vacation and buy a pool before I get my bonus. A guide should operate the same way

Wow!
to much to explain, but it doesn’t compare to just pouring a cup of coffee
lots of time , equipment , training ( 1st aide , license ect) go into it
it’s not like I can grab any joe off the street and turn him lose to be a guide, most states have a set of rules for license but are very similar across the board

RulesandRegs.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[doc holiday13]

Wow!
to much to explain, but it doesn’t compare to just pouring a cup of coffee
lots of time , equipment , training ( 1st aide , license ect) go into it
it’s not like I can grab any joe off the street and turn him lose to be a guide, most states have a set of rules for license but are very similar across the board

So yeah I'm not really sure who you're advocating for. If you think I'm saying that a guide should be paid $8 an hour then you missed what I said. I also never implied that a guide doesn't have his own cost personally.

Lets assume the guide has agreed to get paid $1000 per 5 day hunt by his outfitter. I don't think the same guide would agree to work for $100 per 5 day but get the promise of tips.

The outfitter is paying the guide for his skillset and knowledge. I'm paying the outfitter for providing a quality guide.

From my point of view, I'm hiring a guide/outfitter to put me on top of an animal. I don't care who shows up in front of me as long as they know how to get me on an animal. Its really non of my concern what the dude is getting paid, because I'm fairly certain the dude isn't a dumb dumb or else he wouldn't have been hired. If he wasn't happy with the terms of employment, then he shouldn't have taken the job.

Again.. I'm not saying he should be paid $8 an hour. I would guesstimate that a guide would be making something about $25-$55+ per hour( rate would vary depending on animal hunt)

But I would also conjecture that a guide is probably paid for the full length of the hunt and not just get an hourly rate. AKA if the client tags out on day 2, the guide only really gets paid for 2 days

 

[svivian]

Wow!
to much to explain, but it doesn’t compare to just pouring a cup of coffee
lots of time , equipment , training ( 1st aide , license ect) go into it
it’s not like I can grab any joe off the street and turn him lose to be a guide, most states have a set of rules for license but are very similar across the board

RulesandRegs.pdf

drive.google.com

While I agree to some of your points, here in Colorado many operations do pull any joe off the street. Its very hard to find anyone willing to work seasonally let alone 7 days a week 12-14 hrs a day for several months.

In high school and college I helped several local outfitters because they couldn't find anyone and I would fill in the holes. While most of the time we were very successful there are a lot who are not when they run into this situation. I think this is where we see some of the bad reviews where the guide is not that good even with the prospect of a large tip.

I see you are from texas/New mexico so I assume you own a large private ranch where you can operate all year long where this may not be an issue?

 

[tdhanses]

Guided hunts are referred to as just that, "guided hunts". Whether correct or not, the perceived service being paid for is, in fact, the guiding. There obviously is already a surcharge for guiding as 2x1 and 1x1 hunts do not cost the same. I will keep tipping, but I still think it is stupid

It’s also widely known the price is reduced to give the hunter the option to determine the guides worth as not all guides are equal, if you would prefer prices could go up and you couod get a lazy ass guide and guess what you oaid for his service in full already so he’ll get the same fee as the other guide that busted his butt for another client.

I just find it interesting you would rather pay more up front no matter the quality of service received.

For me personally I see it as the outfitter giving me the option to determine the guides worth, what you pay the outfitter is for his camp, horses and food, not the actually hunting.

I would be irritated to pay in full and get a crappy guide with zero recourse, look at the contracts for these hunts and I’m glad not all fees are included. Don’t think of it as a tip, think of it as the fee for someone helping you that is separate from the cost of camp, horses and food.

 

[S-3 ranch]

While I agree to some of your points, here in Colorado many operations do pull any joe off the street. Its very hard to find anyone willing to work seasonally let alone 7 days a week 12-14 hrs a day for several months.

In high school and college I helped several local outfitters because they couldn't find anyone and I would fill in the holes. While most of the time we were very successful there are a lot who are not when they run into this situation. I think this is where we see some of the bad reviews where the guide is not that good even with the prospect of a large tip.

I see you are from texas/New mexico so I assume you own a large private ranch where you can operate all year long where this may not be an issue?

No I am bound by different seasons and draws except for aoudad sheep in Texas, other states have various insurance, medical, trash , code in enforcement
and the us coast guard and TP&W requirements for on water activity

 

[GringoBling]

Despite the differences in opinions and perspectives on this subject, I appreciate how this discussion has remained civil without any name-calling or disparaging comments. I'm a member on a different hunting forum and some of the guys on the there can be incredibly scornful and demeaning when dealing with differing opinions.

 

[bozeman]

And here I thought guides were just out there because they love it and not for $$.......

 

[Overdrive]

I'll share with you from my point of view, I've guided for several years now and tips are greatly appreciated for the work we do. I guide for 2 completely different types of outfits. So here is the break down of pay and you decide if there are any rich guides out there, keep in mind this is the only outfitters I work with so pay may very across the board.

Private land outfitter in Wyoming

I make $200 a day and work 12 hours a day on average so that's $16.66/hr
3 day hunts
Largest tip I've received here $300

Horseback hunts in Colorado

1x1 hunts $225/day average 16 hour days so I make $14.06/hr
4-5 day hunts
Largest tip I've received $600

2x1 hunts $325/day average 16 hour days so I make $20.21/hr
4-5 day hunts
Largest tip I've received $1400

 

[svivian]

I'll share with you from my point of view, I've guided for several years now and tips are greatly appreciated for the work we do. I guide for 2 completely different types of outfits. So here is the break down of pay and you decide if there are any rich guides out there, keep in mind this is the only outfitters I work with so pay may very across the board.

Private land outfitter in Wyoming

I make $200 a day and work 12 hours a day on average so that's $16.66/hr
3 day hunts
Largest tip I've received here $300

Horseback hunts in Colorado

1x1 hunts $225/day average 16 hour days so I make $14.06/hr
4-5 day hunts
Largest tip I've received $600

2x1 hunts $325/day average 16 hour days so I make $20.21/hr
4-5 day hunts
Largest tip I've received $1400

Using you as an example if we take averages you receive $250/day so for an average 5 day week thats $1250/week base pay. then add an average bonus of $766.66/ week for a total of $2016.66.

$8,000/ month with possibly no expenses.

 

[WiscoHoundsman]

I'll share with you from my point of view, I've guided for several years now and tips are greatly appreciated for the work we do. I guide for 2 completely different types of outfits. So here is the break down of pay and you decide if there are any rich guides out there, keep in mind this is the only outfitters I work with so pay may very across the board.

Private land outfitter in Wyoming

I make $200 a day and work 12 hours a day on average so that's $16.66/hr
3 day hunts
Largest tip I've received here $300

Horseback hunts in Colorado

1x1 hunts $225/day average 16 hour days so I make $14.06/hr
4-5 day hunts
Largest tip I've received $600

2x1 hunts $325/day average 16 hour days so I make $20.21/hr
4-5 day hunts
Largest tip I've received $1400

What would the cost of those hunts typically be?

 

[WCB]

So yeah I'm not really sure who you're advocating for. If you think I'm saying that a guide should be paid $8 an hour then you missed what I said. I also never implied that a guide doesn't have his own cost personally.

Lets assume the guide has agreed to get paid $1000 per 5 day hunt by his outfitter. I don't think the same guide would agree to work for $100 per 5 day but get the promise of tips.

The outfitter is paying the guide for his skillset and knowledge. I'm paying the outfitter for providing a quality guide.

From my point of view, I'm hiring a guide/outfitter to put me on top of an animal. I don't care who shows up in front of me as long as they know how to get me on an animal. Its really non of my concern what the dude is getting paid, because I'm fairly certain the dude isn't a dumb dumb or else he wouldn't have been hired. If he wasn't happy with the terms of employment, then he shouldn't have taken the job.

Again.. I'm not saying he should be paid $8 an hour. I would guesstimate that a guide would be making something about $25-$55+ per hour( rate would vary depending on animal hunt)

But I would also conjecture that a guide is probably paid for the full length of the hunt and not just get an hourly rate. AKA if the client tags out on day 2, the guide only really gets paid for 2 days

After knowing what I could make/made while guiding from tips $100 a day and tips would pay way higher than $1000 a week. I made WAY more on average over the season than $1000 per wk.

Also, if you are a good guide and or worker in general whether your guy tags out on day 2 or day 10 you stay busy working. There is always something to do around camp even more so when stock is involved. Our "day off" was 1/2 day basically from when 1 set of clients would leave to until the next would arrive and many times the clients overlapped a little that day with departing clients getting a late start and new clients bright eyed and bushytailed arriving early at camp.

It is not that the former guides on here or guys "in favor" of tipping don't get the arguments being put out by guys that 1. Don't like it 2. Don't get it OR 3. are just cheap....It is the fact that we have been there and understand that the client has a choice...and if you work your ass off you can do better and make more. AND we know that MOST of the same guys will bitch and moan about outfitters cost more so than they do now because the costs WILL go up. So as a client you have control over what you pay including the exact advertised price of the hunt OR you can pay 10,20, 30% more automatically and complain about that.

 

[Overdrive]

Using you as an example if we take averages you receive $250/day so for an average 5 day week thats $1250/week base pay. then add an average bonus of $766.66/ week for a total of $2016.66.

$8,000/ month with possibly no expenses.

I would say a better baseline for me would be, I'm guiding 60 days this fall then if you want to use your $250 average I'd be around $15k for 2 1/2 months. Since the way the seasons are structured in each state I do have days off in between hunts. Tips very as you could guess. If I was to guess it's more around 400-500 on average on the Colorado hunts, lower on the Wyoming hunts 200 average. The tips I shared were the highest tip I've received over the years.

My expenses would consist of things like game bags, Diesel, toiletries and I do tip the wranglers/packers and the camp cook out of my tips. I wouldn't really include my gear as I upgrade maybe every couple years as things wear out.

 

[Overdrive]

What would the cost of those hunts typically be?

The Wyoming hunts start at $2500 3 day and go up to a $10000 per person for a combo 6 day hunt. Depends on species Deer, Elk or Antelope

Colorado hunts are $4600 per person

 

[Mojave]

Honest question, just thought about this: feedback on receiving gift cards as a tip? Something like $500 WalMart gift card, $250 Amazon gift card; $250 Visa gift card? etc.....

L.B.

No cash only. 1-25 percent whatever you can afford.

 

[Mojave]

I'll share with you from my point of view, I've guided for several years now and tips are greatly appreciated for the work we do. I guide for 2 completely different types of outfits. So here is the break down of pay and you decide if there are any rich guides out there, keep in mind this is the only outfitters I work with so pay may very across the board.

Private land outfitter in Wyoming

I make $200 a day and work 12 hours a day on average so that's $16.66/hr
3 day hunts
Largest tip I've received here $300

Horseback hunts in Colorado

1x1 hunts $225/day average 16 hour days so I make $14.06/hr
4-5 day hunts
Largest tip I've received $600

2x1 hunts $325/day average 16 hour days so I make $20.21/hr
4-5 day hunts
Largest tip I've received $1400

A lot to unpack here.

First off, thank you for going your metrics. It is interesting to see what the payout is on your end.

I have been on 6 guided hunts. 2 in Europe, 1 in Africa, 1 in Maine and 1 in Texas.

In Europe it was a group hunt both times. Once a stand hunt for roe bucks and the other one was a driven hunt.

There were about 100 people at the driven hunt, it cost $1500 for two days, they fed us lunch both days, lodging was at a hotel that we paid for and they pulled all the game out of the field. I didn't get a shot at anything. I had two opportunities to kill something on the driven hunt, and both times there was a dog behind the game animal or one of the beaters. So I froze to death in a drive hunt tower for 16 hours and enjoyed taking photos of foxes (that were for some reason not on the game list). I didn't tip.

The stand hunt for roe bucks I shot 2, and had an opportunity to shoot the allotted 3, but missed one and wasn't paying attention on the 4th one. So I paid $1500 for two bucks out of 3. I tipped $150 between the guides. No meals or lodging was provided, hotel and my own meals in town.

Namibia was wonderful, killed 14 animals. Lots of drama between the other hunters in camp and the outfitter. I tipped the outfitters wife (cook) $150, and stiffed the guide as he left me at his house for 8 hours so he could fix plumbing for his wife. I speak Spanish and the other clients were from Spain, so they asked me to get involved. It was bullshit, then they conspired against me and the other clients.

Maine, tipped 10%. was what I could afford.

Texas. Was in camp with a guy that had more money in his pocket than I make in a year. They only had one guide and I spent 3 days waiting for this guy to shoot, I got to hunt for about 8 hours and shot a small aoudad. It was free range. Went home pissed off. The other client paid for my taxidermy, I tipped the guide $300 (about 5%) and drove home in the middle of the night pissed off. The other guy and I are now friends. Cook was amazing! Other guy shot the ark, they had elk, red sheep, javelina and mule deer. He killed one of everything. He had killed an aoudad the night before I got there. They called and told me to stop in El Paso and have dinner and get there late. I figured out why when I got there. 4 day hunt, I hunted for the last day. Everyone was nice, but they were milking the whale. Wasn't a good experience.

In Europe tipping is not a common thing to do. When I lived in Australia, they don't tip at all. Everyone on the planet expects Americans to tip.

I would prefer a system where the guide just makes more and the hunt cost a little bit more.

I have heard of guides taking a hunter for a big walk and purposely not finding them game. Because the guide thought the hunter would not tip. Nothing professional about that.

 

[S-3 ranch]

When I was a apprentice guide , the NFL player Eyrel Campbell came on a hunt shot @ and miss 3 monsters, we worked our tails off in helping production and filming and at the end of the hunt, he gave everyone a coolEr full of bacon and sausage, ( the hunt was filmed and sponsored by his meat company)

pretty funny now , not for a poor apprentice

when I go to a foreign country , I take hard to get items like spyderco knives, work gloves and cigarettes and gift them + give a standard tip to trackers and bird boys, drivers, bar tenders, the outfitters usually own the property so are paid up front, use common sense

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

It basically comes down to this:

If you don't want to tip or don't agree with the outfitting/guide payment structure don't go on a guided trip OR tell the outfitter you are just going to write the final check for $100 a day more than the total and then the tip is included in the cost at a predetermined amount just like if tipping went away and the outfitter raised the price to pay his guides "better".


When did I say I wanted a mandatory 20%....you will not find it in anything I wrote above. In fact I turned down tips before so the hunter could take care of the cook and other help. And also tipped out the cook and other help at the end of the season from my own money. You seem to have something against guides?

And from your comments you do seem like a guy that would turn in a guide or waiter or heck even the guy building a deck next door for pocketing some cash.

I should have specified "generic" you and not "specific". For that I do apologize.

While it is true that I am not a fan of tax evasion, you are incorrect in that I am likely to report a guide or waiter for merely "pocketing some cash".

I have no ill will towards guides as a profession as they provide a valuable service (in theory). However, once you (generic) interact with the individual guides all bets are off as some are great and some are near worthless.

If someone wants to tip based upon price, then it is their right. If someone wants to tell others that the tips should be based upon price, then it is their right. If someone wants to tip based upon effort, then it is their right. What I have personally found is that those who are the most passionate about tipping based upon percentage either are horrible guides or exceptional guides.

Hunters do tend to short change the cooks, packers and any other support staff. Some cooks and packers do work harder and longer than the guides yet tend to get the financial scraps. When present, I do tend to take good care of them.

 

[Brooks]

I know guides that will spend a ton of time a month or two before the first Hunter shows up scouting the unit every chance they get. They could just show up on day one and say let’s go try to find some elk but instead they burn a lot of fuel and time getting ready and finding good critters. All that comes out of their pocket a lot of repeat customers know that and appreciate it and let the guide know it at the end of the hunt.

 

[j_volt]

I know guides that will spend a ton of time a month or two before the first Hunter shows up scouting the unit every chance they get. They could just show up on day one and say let’s go try to find some elk but instead they burn a lot of fuel and time getting ready and finding good critters. All that comes out of their pocket a lot of repeat customers know that and appreciate it and let the guide know it at the end of the hunt.

So if a guide doesn’t personally scout before the hunt, no tip? I don’t really care how they lead me to skinning the cat, I would just like cat skinned.