To Outfitters: Help me to be a better client

[tcpip95]

I just finished reading a couple of great threads about outfitters, their job, the hard work they go through, and how they have to put up with a lot of "things" from clients. I too am in a business where I have clients, and that old saying is true, with the addition of "... they may not be correct, but they're always right.".

I am going on a couple of guided hunts next year, and the year after that. I want to be a "good client". What are some of the things that differentiate a "good" client from a "bad" client? And more to the point, how can I be a "good" client?

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

One of my biggest issues is clients not being physically in shape and mentally prepared for the hunt. Nothing worse than saying there they are this is what we gotta do and the client says no I can’t do it. Or to far or anything like that.

Next read the contract and understand it, know the rules and regs, as well to the best of ur knowledge it really helps especially if there are antler restrictions, takes a huge stress off the guide if he does need to leave you for some reason for a bit.

If a guide does ask you a question give them your honest opinion or answer! Don’t over do urself to impress them, be as honest as possible about everything.

Last do what ur guide says, they do this as a job, you don’t, if the guide says go to this spot work slow etc do as he says not try to be the leader and impress them. An opinion of something is one thing if they ask but they should have the experience you don’t have that’s why you hired them right.


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[Indian Summer]

Don’t crash and burn. There is no reason why you should be the perfect client on day 1 and gradually lose confidence by the day. Confidence in both your hunting area and your guide. Usually with that comes a declining attitude too. If you’ve done your homework you need to have faith in your decision. If you found a budget hunt that didn’t turn out to be a quality hunt then there’s nobody but yourself to blame. Ask yourself if I was guiding a guy back home for deer how should he be handling it. Should he think your stands all suck by day 3?

Hunt every day with a smile and a pleasant attitude. You wouldn’t like it if your guide’s attitude and confidence went downhill would you?

It’s easy to start thinking about all the money you “wasted” as your hunt becomes half over or nearly over. At that point you’re not focused on hunting and things just go downhill. Have you ever killed a buck back home on the last day? It’s the best! So chin up until the very end. Those are the hunters I like to work hard for.

 

[Fullfan]

You could bet If I paid 5k for a week long hunt. I would not worrie about how I should act.

 

[Indian Summer]

You could bet If I paid 5k for a week long hunt. I would not worrie about how I should act.

$5000 isn’t an expensive guided elk hunt. But even if you paid 2 grand for a drop camp the outfitter should still work hard and keep his promises. Regardless of what your hunt cost paying for it doesn’t give anyone the right to have a bad attitude. I can’t imagine even thinking that way. To me a hunter/guide relationship should be a partnership. A friendship for a week where two people have a common goal and enjoy trying to accomplish it together. Even if the outfitter himself sucks you can still have a good hunt if you have a good guide who loves his job. However guides don’t consider getting up at 4am to put up with a cranky negative guy a dream job. When that happens it’s just that…. a job. And if your attitude is really unfair you might become a customer like in any other business and get what you paid for which is 7 days of his time regardless of the outcome. I know guides who have become lifelong friends with a few hunters they guided. Sometimes a hunter came back a couple times before he killed his bull. But he came back to hunt with “his” guide. They hit it off from day 1. Those are great hunts! That’s how it’s supposed to be.

 

[swavescatter]

You could bet If I paid 5k for a week long hunt. I would not worrie about how I should act.

Perfect example that money can't buy class...

 

[Mikido]

Perfect example that money can't buy class...

Your post threw out the insult….

unlike the majority of hunts in the America (whitetail and waterfowl I’m guessing), the client actually has to work for elk, which the majority of western first time clients are probably surprised by…..

im not a guide, but a very good friend is, and it’s all about attitude and honesty, for both ends. Good luck on your hunts.

 

[Indian Summer]

Here’s the thing… then I’ll shut up. Elk hunting is tough dirty business. It’s both physically and mentally demanding. Especially for hunters not in shape, both physically and mentally it pushes people to their limits. That brings out the best and worst in people. I’ve even seen hunters get into it with each other. Realize that there will be tough times and it’s nothing like tv and YouTube and keep your emotions in check.

 

[LKY_DVL_1]

Come prepared, be realistic, and don't be arrogant. As one of the other guys mentioned, it should be considered a partnership. When I'm on a guided hunt I personally like to be as involved as they will let me be. I don't like to sit back and watch the guide do all the work.
When I'm guiding hunters the only thing that really matters to me is attitude and personality. Guides want every client to get what they came for and a good one will work his/her tail off to make it happen. If you have unrealistic expectations it makes it impossible for the guide to deliver the results.
I've also heard of a outfitter selling unrealistic expectations and therefore putting the guide in a tough spot so keep that in mind as well.

 

[Mikido]

Are tips expected on drop camps?

 

[tntrker]

I've been on 2 guided hunts so far, one elk and another moose. I love the outdoors and the new experiences that come with new terrain and tactics. I went into both of them open minded, patient, understanding, and trusting the guide 100%. With the elk hunt, it turned into a "lodge hunt" vs tent. The crew just came out of the back country after 3 weeks and instead of them having to do "camp and horse chores" got to sleep in a bed, sleep later, and not have to deal with ANY horse dealings. We rode in 4WD's with heater on and they were on FB or social media the whole time. Even pushing me to wanting to stalk a smaller bull for an evening hunt, which ment waiting for him to come down on ranch land and me shooting him from behind a haybale. I told them no numerous times and even choose to go shoot a mule deer we had seen earlier to get away from that smaller bull elk stalk idea. I wound up shooting a 5x5 a few days later after insisting on a stalk hunt not a truck hunt.
The Moose hunt I was with the same friend. Normally I get 1st choice since I do all the research, booking, ect. His luggage was lost with his ammo, clothes, etc so I let him take the lead wearing my clothes and using my ammo. The guide was great. Done everything to make a hunt possible, ie ideas, played the wind, quietness, even explaining signs and such when there was no need. VERY enjoyable. After my friend shot his moose, it was my turn. IMMEADIATLY there was a shift in demeanor, tactics, hunting style. He started "forgetting" calls, cover scent, chainsaw, Hunting upwind, no constant wind checks, ripping off gaiters, no whisper talks, taking boots off while sitting, taking midday naps. Yea, my confidence and attitude did change on the 2nd day of my turn. On the 3rd day, we started riding 20mph for miles down a logging rd to try to catch one in the open. That's not how I wanted to hunt. I insisted we stop. I was getting frostbit from the wind riding. We were riding so fast for so long we could have past 30 moose just inside the trees and missed. Never once stopped to call or anything. I suggested we go back to were we saw fresh sign on the rode, hike back and call. We did and got set up in a beautiful little meadow/bog area and started calling. It wasn't long until he was dozing off in the best advantage point we were at. I went to my pack and ate, drank, and got ready for an all day sit. I woke him up and asked him to change spots were I could hunt and he could sleep. I called my moose in 30 min later while he was snoring behind me. I saw it running to me in a clear cut above us but he hung up in some trees in between us but kept grunting. I had goosebumps, rifle ready and was enjoying the hunt and view. The guide popped up beside me after a little bit and said "here comes a moose get ready and be quiet". I said" my rifles ready and he is right there, you be still and quiet." Sure enough he popped out and the guide kept telling me to shoot, while he was quartering towards me. I'm not taking a "quartering towards me shot" as a just appeared shot. I waited until he gave me a broad side shot and drilled him.

Not meaning to get away from this initial thread post but, I'm a hunter and as easy going as it gets while hunting the "unknown" but I do know right from wrong in hunting and I have yet to be able to experience my "dream hunt" with a guide. I'm still trying as I'm booked with another outfitter in Sept for my 1st archery elk hunt. I hope my guide and I can become "friends" and I get my dream hunt. It's not about the size, as I shot a smaller bull moose than I was after but the fact I called it in and that whole situation and place made it special.

Moral of all this imo.....go into a guided hunt with complete trust and confidence in your guide. But if things are not lining up with your hunting experience, knowledge, dreams, after a few days, don't be afraid to make a change to make your hunt enjoyable. Again, the experience is the hunt, for me anyhow..

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

You could bet If I paid 5k for a week long hunt. I would not worrie about how I should act.

This right here is exactly why i have gone to such a large screening process for the clients who want guided hunts. Sure you are paying the money that is more than understandable BUT that doesn’t give you the right to act entitled and out of line. B

Unless you’ve guided for western animals especially elk you have no idea the amount of stress a good guide puts on their mind and body, not just for you but several clients a year. As the owner of my company, one of my jobs on top of keeping guides in line, Making plans, smoozing clients, Is keeping a positive energy for several hunters and guided. I have actually ended hunts because I client had the mentality they paid they could act however they wanted cause it’s “my job” and I chose this life. Best part the guy actually 2 days before was telling me about a bad client he had right before the trip and how rude the person was.

I understand there is a level of expectation when paying for a hunt but you still need to act decent, unless there are bigger issues; not finding elk isn’t one of them


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[BigAntlerGetter]

Are tips expected on drop camps?

Expected no, it is a service industry, lot of packers live off their tips though


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[swavescatter]

Man I hate tipping. I was a waiter for 6 years so I understand that industry. If I was King for a day I'd abolish gratuity. Just pay people what they need and charge the full price.

We booked a deep sea fishing trip that cost several thousand dollars, but then had to hit ATMs at port because the outfit doesn't even pay the first mates?! WTF just charge us an extra grand upfront.

That said I still tip well when expected - just wish it was all rolled into the upfront price. Tipping doesn't actually incentivize better service in the long run. A half ass outfit will eventually fail and reviews speak for themselves.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

Man I hate tipping. I was a waiter for 6 years so I understand that industry. If I was King for a day I'd abolish gratuity. Just pay people what they need and charge the full price.

We booked a deep sea fishing trip that cost several thousand dollars, but then had to hit ATMs at port because the outfit doesn't even pay the first mates?! WTF just charge us an extra grand upfront.

That said I still tip well when expected - just wish it was all rolled into the upfront price. Tipping doesn't actually incentivize better service in the long run. A half ass outfit will eventually fail and reviews speak for themselves.

I’m kind of on both sides of the tipping. I have tried it all adding tipping into price, letting clients choose tips, when tips were included it helped everyone know these are my wages these are my tips, Some enjoyed it some went into a limp mode, some just did their job as normal. Some guys when it’s not included go above and beyond, some don’t, and some go held assed the next season cause they felt screwed the season before.

So let’s say I just tell guys gratuity is included now, so ur hunt went from $5000 to $6000 cause my guys deserve 20% gratuity for their work regardless. I’m gonna lose clients cause now my price is $1000 higher, and most guys really don’t figure a tip unless they are successful


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[Laramie]

Beyond what should be obvious preparations- being in shape, being proficient with your weapon, etc...

1- Do enough research to have realistic expectations of the outfitter, the area, and the hunt itself. So many guys show up to a hunt not really understanding what the hunt will be like, what size of animals are realistic for the hunt, or how difficult the hunt will be.

2- Allow yourself to enjoy the experience. Don't allow yourself to stress over filling the tag. Most guided hunts end in success. Trust in your guide and don't place undue stress on them 2 days into the hunt.

3- Understand that over half the people that guides take out in the field are not enjoyable to be with. They put up with a lot from some people. Be that guy that lets him do his job and you stand a much better chance of him giving you 100% effort.

4- If you are unhappy with something, don't keep it to yourself. Communication is key to a successful guide hunter relationship. Maybe your bed stinks or you don't like the cooking... whatever, let your guide know in a respectful way and give him a chance to do something about it.

 

[swavescatter]

So let’s say I just tell guys gratuity is included now, so ur hunt went from $5000 to $6000 cause my guys deserve 20% gratuity for their work regardless. I’m gonna lose clients cause now my price is $1000 higher, and most guys really don’t figure a tip unless they are successful

I think that's a good approach.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Be in shape, to the best of your abilities, for your hunt.

Let the outfitter and guide know if you have any physical limitations, medical conditions, etc.

Don’t guide the guide.

Give the guide and/or outfitter an opportunity to correct issues during the hunt.

————
Should have a thread on what guides and outfitters can do to be better.

 

[tdhanses]

Went on my first guided elk hunt this year, I really think you get out of it what you put in. You may not be in the best shape and you will not be close to as in shape as your guide but a strong mental attitude goes along way. I also feel if you develop a friendship and common respect that makes the experience that much better.

Truthfully if one understands they are going on a trip for an amazing experience and not a hunt I think there tends to be a much better outlook from us the client and that feeds to the guide, yes i wanted to be successful but there was so much more to the experience where had I not been successful I still would of been extremely happy, the guide has pride as well and wants you to be successful but if we as clients look at the experience as a whole I think we have a much better time.

 

[ganngus]

I am not an outfitter, however, here is the thing I tell everyone I know considering a guided elk hunt...

You get what you pay for. 320+ inch bulls do not grow on every tree. There is almost always a price correlation between size of elk and numbers.

The biggest problem I have seen with outfitters is from them setting an unreasonable set of expectations.

If you are paying 4-5k total on an outfitter, you should not have illusions of grandeur in your mind. Is it possible to see a 300+ bull? Of course. Are 90% of the bulls that outfitter harvests 300+ inches? Probably not. There may be exceptions, however, outfitters whose average elk is over 300 inches are usually going to charge north of 10k.

Following this further, there is often times a disconnect between what the outfitter is selling to get you to book and what the actual guide tries to get you to harvest. Booking a 4-5k hunt, the outfitter may be selling the prospect of a big bull. However, don't be surprised when your guide is making recommendation for you to harvest a young 5 point...