To Outfitters: Help me to be a better client

[davsco]

the death march comments in here are horrible. if you have an obstinate client, putting them on game will improve the attitude and relationship of both sides.

like any contract/agreement/relationship, both sides need to be brutally honest about what they will give and what they will get. and i'm talking about before money changes hands, months in advance of the hunt. getting into camp and finding the client can't walk a mile, or the guide has a bunch of untrained hags, that is way too late to find out.

 

[3325]

…….both sides need to be brutally honest about what they will give and what they will get. and i'm talking about before money changes hands…….

This I agree with.

At first it seems reasonable for a hunter on a dream hunt that he’s saved years for to think, “I’m PAYING for this! Therefore…….”

But no matter what you paid, you can’t be buying something the outfitter isn’t selling.

 

[GotDraw?]

Are tips expected on drop camps?

???

Absolutely.

When you go out to dinner, your waiter expects a minimum 15-20% tip for the total 15-20 minutes he/she spent with you and your table in air conditioned comfort.

Your packer or guide that packs you in to the drop camp spend hours with you going in and going out. They bust their asses while doing it, no matter how shitty the weather. When they are done, then they still have to get their stock back to the stable, take off the tack, check/clean hooves, brush/water them and get set up for the next day.

What is THAT worth compared to how you tip your waiter?

JL

 

[davsco]

???

Absolutely.

When you go out to dinner, your waiter expects a minimum 15-20% tip for the total 15-20 minutes he/she spent with you and your table in air conditioned comfort.

again, that is something that should be brought up and spelled out in advance. folks need to know the all-in cost on their hunts. i'd guess most folks going on first time guided hunts have no idea all the ancillary costs on top of the base fee. it would behoove the outfitter to list all that out when doing the contract vs having a client show up with sticker shock (and/or not enough funds).

 

[hh76]

???

Absolutely.

When you go out to dinner, your waiter expects a minimum 15-20% tip for the total 15-20 minutes he/she spent with you and your table in air conditioned comfort.

Your packer or guide that packs you in to the drop camp spend hours with you going in and going out. They bust their asses while doing it, no matter how shitty the weather. When they are done, then they still have to get their stock back to the stable, take off the tack, check/clean hooves, brush/water them and get set up for the next day.

What is THAT worth compared to how you tip your waiter?

JL

Different industries. Working hard isn't all that uncommon. I've got crews that bust their asses all day trenching for customers, and they never receive tips.

Those of us that have never done these things before don't always know. Best to get the word out ahead of time so the customer knows what is expected. I'd hate to be labeled a cheap ass because I didn't realize that a service I hired expected tips on top of their fee.

 

[tdhanses]

Different industries. Working hard isn't all that uncommon. I've got crews that bust their asses all day trenching for customers, and they never receive tips.

Those of us that have never done these things before don't always know. Best to get the word out ahead of time so the customer knows what is expected. I'd hate to be labeled a cheap ass because I didn't realize that a service I hired expected tips on top of their fee.

But do you pay them a fair wage or do you sell them on the fact most of their income will come from tips? This is a service industry and more similar to a restaurant then a construction job. These are seasonal employees and tips keep them afloat.

 

[tdhanses]

again, that is something that should be brought up and spelled out in advance. folks need to know the all-in cost on their hunts. i'd guess most folks going on first time guided hunts have no idea all the ancillary costs on top of the base fee. it would behoove the outfitter to list all that out when doing the contract vs having a client show up with sticker shock (and/or not enough funds).

I don’t agree, I think most people realize this but i also think people budget for the bare minimum at times. I gave my guide this year an option, cash or my Leica Geovid RF binos, he was extremely grateful i gave him a choice, just say i lost my binos on the hunt. He said he had never been given an option before, i was shocked to hear this as being my first guided hunt I figured many would give them an option, cash or better gear.

When I can afford to do the hunt again I’ll go back and ask him to be my guide.

 

[3325]

If this thread has accomplished nothing else, it’s let some forum members know that a guided hunt is probably not for them.

The reality of what a guided hunt is and their expectations of what a guided hunt should be will likely not be reconciled.

 

[dtrkyman]

Mostly attitude, positive attitude goes a long way. I am a guide not an outfitter, but sometimes I feel like a shrink!

Be in shape, guys can rarely keep up!!!

You are paying for a hunt not a shoot!

 

[tcpip95]

As the OP, I got a great deal out of this thread. I also think that many - if not most - people here would go for an outfitted hunt. A lot was covered here that was new to me.

 

[oldman]

Why would someone pay $1000s of dollars just for an experience? Anyone can put in for a tag, go into the woods, and have a wonderful experience. If you're booking with a guide, I think the expectation is absolutely to be successful. Obviously, you have to make the shot and outside factors can possibly come into play. But overall, isn't killing a bigger bull/buck than you would've on your own the point of booking with an outfitter?

In Colorado the public unit lands are just way to over crowded so I go guided just for access to quality ground which is uncrowded.I do not need a guide to guide me. I am old so retrieval of my elk is important and I know i cannot do it anymore. Trophy quality may be important to some but the majority of elk killed in Colorado are 21/2 -3/12 yr. olds. When I go out of state (Africa, Canada etc.) I am going to be there a very sort time and thus I do not want to bring my own camp etc and I will not be familiar with the area I am hunting. Success rates vary a lot among outfitters but the average in Colorado for elk I believe is around 20% and for unguided I believe around 8%. I HAD TO QUIT HUNTING IN 2020 due to health reasons and I am 78.

 

[Olympics777]

Why would someone pay $1000s of dollars just for an experience? Anyone can put in for a tag, go into the woods, and have a wonderful experience. If you're booking with a guide, I think the expectation is absolutely to be successful. Obviously, you have to make the shot and outside factors can possibly come into play. But overall, isn't killing a bigger bull/buck than you would've on your own the point of booking with an outfitter?

It depends. Like others have said, a 4-5k elk hunt is cheap, but you won’t have as good a chance of killing a nice bull. Non resident chances of shooting a bull here is Idaho diy is something like 5-8 percent, with a cheap guide it’s probably 20%, and with an expensive private land guide it’s probably like 75%. It’s NEVER a guarantee, and definitely not on public land.

 

[Olympics777]

To the OP, just be in shape, practice shooting before you go, and don’t be grumpy if you don’t see animals right away, some days elk move a lot and some times they move not at all. Most of the time your guide wants you to kill an animal as much as you want to kill one yourself.

 

[Mikido]

???

Absolutely.

When you go out to dinner, your waiter expects a minimum 15-20% tip for the total 15-20 minutes he/she spent with you and your table in air conditioned comfort.

Your packer or guide that packs you in to the drop camp spend hours with you going in and going out. They bust their asses while doing it, no matter how shitty the weather. When they are done, then they still have to get their stock back to the stable, take off the tack, check/clean hooves, brush/water them and get set up for the next day.

What is THAT worth compared to how you tip your waiter?

JL

Do you talk to your clients like this? Simple question bc I’m not aware of the etiquette. And yes, it’s etiquette, not a “standard”. Don’t need the condescending correlation to a waiter, which isn’t quite applicable.

Is a packer I see twice on a 7 day hunt expecting 20%, like a guide I’m with all day everyday, or a waiter who I interact with the entire evening?

Legit question and I’d appreciate real feedback.

Thanks

 

[tdhanses]

Do you talk to your clients like this? Simple question bc I’m not aware of the etiquette. And yes, it’s etiquette, not a “standard”. Don’t need the condescending correlation to a waiter, which isn’t quite applicable.

Is a packer I see twice on a 7 day hunt expecting 20%, like a guide I’m with all day everyday, or a waiter who I interact with the entire evening?

Legit question and I’d appreciate real feedback.

Thanks

For me cooks and packers get 2%, guides 10-15% was my baseline before I went. In reality there was a cook, a camp jack, packer, wrangler and my guide, I gave the cook and wrangler $100 each, the camp jack and packer $50ea, my guide and I did all the packing but I still recognize that they all contribute to the experience even if in an indirect way. But could be best to budget 25% for all with the majority going to the guide.

Really just go with what you feel is comfortable and right, think each situation will be it’s own animal but just be prepared, you may not feel they deserve anything but you may feel they deserve more.

Also good guides and Oufitters have backlogs sometimes or a number of annual repeat customers, i’d think if this was in the cards you wouldn’t want to be known as the cheap client, probably will get the lowest guide on the totem pole next time.

 

[swavescatter]

For me cooks and packers get 2%, guides 10-15% was my baseline before I went. In reality there was a cook, a camp jack, packer, wrangler and my guide, I gave the cook and wrangler $100 each, the camp jack and packer $50ea, my guide and I did all the packing but I still recognize that they all contribute to the experience even if in an indirect way. But could be best to budget 25% for all with the majority going to the guide.

Really just go with what you feel is comfortable and right, think each situation will be it’s own animal but just be prepared, you may not feel they deserve anything but you may feel they deserve more.

Also good guides and Oufitters have backlogs sometimes or a number of annual repeat customers, i’d think if this was in the cards you wouldn’t want to be known as the cheap client, probably will get the lowest guide on the totem pole next time.

That's way too complicated. Pay the men what they deserve and send me the bill. I shouldn't have to be doling out cash handshakes to everyone peripherally involved. How much should I tip the game warden?

 

[tdhanses]

That's way too complicated. Pay the men what they deserve and send me the bill. I shouldn't have to be doling out cash handshakes to everyone peripherally involved. How much should I tip the game warden?

It’s not that hard but it does up the cost when budgeting. It also provides incentive for them to give you an amazing experience as most will tip more the better their experience.

Also you don’t have to tip if you don’t feel like it or if its too complicated to show appreciation. Just go and leave, they wouldn’t say a word to you.

 

[swavescatter]

As a business owner, the incentive I have to provide good service is my reputation. I understand how it simplifies things from the outfitters perspective, but I feel like every transaction in our society now has a little tip jar next to the register. Mechanics are now putting out tip jars!

Want better guides? Pay higher wages. Want better porters? Offer higher wages. Fire the ones that don't cut it. Charge customers more to cover costs (pointing out that "gratuity" is included). If a $5k guided trip usually ends up costing $7k that's fine, just make that the price.

 

[Zappaman]

Guides are like wives (but they are WAY cheaper!)... if you get lucky, you find a good one for life first time out (and some "jewelry" always helps when you get a good "Bull Job"). But... sometimes you have to move on (or stay single).

 

[Traveler]

The question with tips is where and on who does it put the incentive. My friend had a guided hunt on a high quality, expensive private land hunt in a unit well known for big bulls and good success. His guide couldn’t bugle. To be clear it wasn’t that that the guide could bugle and chose not to because cow calls were more effective, the guide admitted he couldn’t bugle. This was a September archery hunt. Friend ended up calling in his own bull. The outfitter gets paid his fee, it’s fixed. Does the hunter tip? Not tipping hurts the guide most, but minimal impact to outfitter who allowed the situation in the first place. The outfitter keeps booking clients due to overall success but the guide loses.

Similar to restaurants-if the food sucks, why am I expected to tip the waiter that smooths the corners. Cooks don’t often get tips, but food is center attraction.