Torn

[thinhorn_AK]

Widows have a reputation for being a little stacky for guys like us with longer draws. Otherwise, they are very good bow and a good investment that holds their value so I'd never try to talk anyone out of owning one.

My latest and most likely final traditional archery acquisition is what I grew up considering the "holy grail" of traditional hunting bows - the Bear Takedown. I found a riser in excellent condition at a reasonable price, and bought a brand new (yes, they still make them) pair of 50th anniversary limbs to go on it. Very quickly, this bow has become my #1 go-to traditional hunting bow. I can have literally any trad bow I want and have had many over the years but the Bear Takedown is all that and a bag of chips. If you can afford one, I'd add it to your list (even though you didn't ask).

BTW, I also draw 50-ish at 31" if that helps.

I have never heard that about black widow bows, one of the big reasons I ordered a BW was that I heard the opposite and the Fred bear I had stacked horribly and had a lot of finger pinch. It also wasn’t a very high performance bow anyways. The Fred bear takedown is cool but I’ve read so many bad reviews about current bear bows and didn’t love the ones I had.

 

[Newtosavage]

I have never heard that about black widow bows, one of the big reasons I ordered a BW was that I heard the opposite and the Fred bear I had stacked horribly and had a lot of finger pinch. It also wasn’t a very high performance bow anyways. The Fred bear takedown is cool but I’ve read so many bad reviews about current bear bows and didn’t love the ones I had.

The Bear Takedown is on a whole other level from the rest of their production bows.

It's been a long running joke on the Leatherwall traditional forum that Widows stack. But again, I'd never try to talk you out of one.

I just know I've had a ton of trad bows including some of the best ever made by the biggest names, and my Bear Takedown is my favorite. Light as a feather, smooth, quiet and fast with no hand shock.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

The Bear Takedown is on a whole other level from the rest of their production bows.

It's been a long running joke on the Leatherwall traditional forum that Widows stack. But again, I'd never try to talk you out of one.

I just know I've had a ton of trad bows including some of the best ever made by the biggest names, and my Bear Takedown is my favorite. Light as a feather, smooth, quiet and fast with no hand shock.

That bear takedown does look nice, I see they even have an aluminum riser out now. I’m guessing that’s a proprietary limb right?

I just spent like 3 hours reading about widows and stacking. Seems like most of what is said on the leatherwall was people joking around and people that have really long draws. I’m about 29.25 when I really stretch out, I’m guessing in reality I’m pulling 29 or under most of the time. Hopefully it dosent stack for me when it gets here.

 

[Newtosavage]

That bear takedown does look nice, I see they even have an aluminum riser out now. I’m guessing that’s a proprietary limb right?

I just spent like 3 hours reading about widows and stacking. Seems like most of what is said on the leatherwall was people joking around and people that have really long draws. I’m about 29.25 when I really stretch out, I’m guessing in reality I’m pulling 29 or under most of the time. Hopefully it dosent stack for me when it gets here.

Yea, it only fits the Bear T/D system, but that latch system is pretty brilliant and the limbs are very good.

I think you'll be fine at 29"

I draw at least 31" when I shoot my hunting bows (3-under, high anchor under the cheekbone) and my 64" Bear T/D is perfect for me.

 

[Grabwad]

I’ll add this.. you can read about them and you will fell comfortable with whichever you choose, however you must shoot them to know how they fit your shooting style. You may be surprised when you find the one that you shoot really good may be a bow not on your list. Shoot the models you are interested in and choose the one you shoot the best.

 

[CRBMAN]

Are black tails that great? Or are they just fancy and nice looking? They seem expensive for what you get.

I found a used Blacktail with two sets of limbs. 60" @ 52lbs and 66" @ 49lbs. Extremely cheap! I thought there there had to be something wrong with it , but I couldn't find a thing. I've had a lot of different stick bows, but that one is by far my favorite.

 

[Sapcut]

Black Widow bows do not stack at all. That is hogwash. I can't imagine a smoother drawing bow and I draw 31.5". I really don't want to be critical of what others think about their bows but I have to say....ain't no way I would pay even half the retail price of a a bear bow instead of a Widow......or probably any other custom made bow.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Black Widow bows do not stack at all. That is hogwash. I can't imagine a smoother drawing bow and I draw 31.5". I really don't want to be critical of what others think about their bows but I have to say....ain't no way I would pay even half the reatial price of a a bear bow instead of a Widow......or probably any other custom made bow.

Have you handled the bear takedown? Not trying to argue or nay say because I agree with you but newtosavage says that the takedown is better than other bear bows. I’ve never handled one personally but I have had a kodiak and a super kodiak and both sort of sucked. When I started getting back into trad, I wanted bear bows because I didn’t know much, the kodiak was ok but it was too light so I sold it and bought a super kodiak out of convenience. It had a lot of poor qualities, gigantic sight window which I didn’t like, stacked badly, tons of finger pinch etc etc. the kodiak was slightly better but it seems that by most reports, bear bows are not what they once were.

I’ve been impressed with the black widow bows I’ve shot which I why I ordered one. I know bivouac has stopped making bows for the foreseeable future so I’m glad I got my hands on my backland longbow before they decided to stop taking orders. I was lukewarm on that bow when I ordered it but so far, I absolutely love it.

 

[Sapcut]

Have you handled the bear takedown? Not trying to argue or nay say because I agree with you but newtosavage says that the takedown is better than other bear bows. I’ve never handled one personally but I have had a kodiak and a super kodiak and both sort of sucked. When I started getting back into trad, I wanted bear bows because I didn’t know much, the kodiak was ok but it was too light so I sold it and bought a super kodiak out of convenience. It had a lot of poor qualities, gigantic sight window which I didn’t like, stacked badly, tons of finger pinch etc etc. the kodiak was slightly better but it seems that by most reports, bear bows are not what they once were.

I’ve been impressed with the black widow bows I’ve shot which I why I ordered one. I know bivouac has stopped making bows for the foreseeable future so I’m glad I got my hands on my backland longbow before they decided to stop taking orders. I was lukewarm on that bow when I ordered it but so far, I absolutely love it.

I had a Bear Takedown, the cheaper version than newer ones I've seen since. I shot that bow for awhile until I got a better custom bow. I was shooting 73 at 29" until it blew up in my palm at full draw. At the time I had no idea what stacking was..... until I got my Widow. The difference was night and day in quality, smoothness, appearance, toughness, design. Just no comparison. Perfectly smooth draw to 31.5" and more. Not to mention so many others I have heard mention bears stacking.

 

[Squirrel Master]

I can't speak for the others, but I've heard good things about all the bows you mentioned. With that said, I shoot a Black Widow PCH and my DL is 29'' and it doesn't stack at all...I'm pretty sure you could get a couple more inches out of it and it's a 60" bow.

 

[Billy Goat]

I have shot the new Bear T/Ds. They are infact very nice bows, smooth, nothing much to complain about, definitely a better bow than any of the Kodiaks, Super Mag, etc.


I prefer the Widows tho. I don’t draw but 29 with a recurve, but the Widows definitely don't stack in my draw range.

For the price I'm going with a high end manufacturer, and I have a pretty good collection of old Bear bows, I'm a fan of them, but it's the nostalgia, not how they shoot.
I haven't found anyone who doesn't like a Widow. It's as good a place to start as anything, you might branchout and try some other brands, but you will likely still be happy with your Widow. Especially since I'm assuming it's being built to your specs, rather than a bow they built around a 28" draw.

 

[Blasey]

Thank you guys for all of this information. I really like the conversations back and forth. I'm still up in the air as I'd like to try one before I get on the 3 month waiting list. I almost went with a Stalker until I spoke with South. He informed me that the Stalker bows gain 2.5lb's for every inch past the written DL on the bow. I was curious as I had a beautiful 60"x 46lb@27" bow in mind, but after the math it turned out to be a 57lb bow, South did mention that at that length he doubted that there would be any finger pinch but he did advise me to go longer overall length. Still on the hunt...

 

[bowhuntercoop]

Thank you guys for all of this information. I really like the conversations back and forth. I'm still up in the air as I'd like to try one before I get on the 3 month waiting list. I almost went with a Stalker until I spoke with South. He informed me that the Stalker bows gain 2.5lb's for every inch past the written DL on the bow. I was curious as I had a beautiful 60"x 46lb@27" bow in mind, but after the math it turned out to be a 57lb bow, South did mention that at that length he doubted that there would be any finger pinch but he did advise me to go longer overall length. Still on the hunt...

You won’t be disappointed in any of his bows. He’s a stand up guy and makes a great bow. Take advantage of his test drive program. He will mail ya a bow to try out.

 

[Btaylor]

Test drive a stalker and a widow and if there are any shoots around you go see what else you can shoot. The right bow will pick you almost as much as you pick it.

 

[Billy Goat]

Thank you guys for all of this information. I really like the conversations back and forth. I'm still up in the air as I'd like to try one before I get on the 3 month waiting list. I almost went with a Stalker until I spoke with South. He informed me that the Stalker bows gain 2.5lb's for every inch past the written DL on the bow. I was curious as I had a beautiful 60"x 46lb@27" bow in mind, but after the math it turned out to be a 57lb bow, South did mention that at that length he doubted that there would be any finger pinch but he did advise me to go longer overall length. Still on the hunt...

Most any recurve is going to add 2.5-3# per inch past the @ draw length. That's different than stacking tho. Stacking is where they really put on the weight, and you more than anything really feel it. I have a few old bears that are great at 27" but those last 2" you really feel it.

 

[Newtosavage]

Black Widow bows do not stack at all. That is hogwash. I can't imagine a smoother drawing bow and I draw 31.5". I really don't want to be critical of what others think about their bows but I have to say....ain't no way I would pay even half the retail price of a a bear bow instead of a Widow......or probably any other custom made bow.

Nobody can make the claim that "X" manufacturers either stack or don't stack if they make more than one length and model. Even then, it still depends on the individual's draw length.

Black Widow makes bows that don't stack at all for some people, and that do for other people. They also make many models and lengths. So again, it's silly to claim that all of a particular manufacturer's bows either stack or don't stack. It's not that simple.

 

[Newtosavage]

I have shot the new Bear T/Ds. They are infact very nice bows, smooth, nothing much to complain about, definitely a better bow than any of the Kodiaks, Super Mag, etc.


I prefer the Widows tho. I don’t draw but 29 with a recurve, but the Widows definitely don't stack in my draw range.

For the price I'm going with a high end manufacturer, and I have a pretty good collection of old Bear bows, I'm a fan of them, but it's the nostalgia, not how they shoot.
I haven't found anyone who doesn't like a Widow. It's as good a place to start as anything, you might branchout and try some other brands, but you will likely still be happy with your Widow. Especially since I'm assuming it's being built to your specs, rather than a bow they built around a 28" draw.

A lot of people don't understand that a Bear T/D is in fact in the same class with even the best Widows and others. It's not just another Bear production bow.

But Bear made so many affordable production bows that that fact is lost on a lot of people.

Regardless, I've yet to meet a Bear T/D owner who didn't love their bow. Many Bear T/D owners go on to add a 2nd and 3rd and 12th because the limbs interchange with the risers.

 

[Sapcut]

Nobody can make the claim that "X" manufacturers either stack or don't stack if they make more than one length and model. Even then, it still depends on the individual's draw length.

Black Widow makes bows that don't stack at all for some people, and that do for other people. They also make many models and lengths. So again, it's silly to claim that all of a particular manufacturer's bows either stack or don't stack. It's not that simple.

It is true that I haven't used all Widow bows to know if they all stack or not. However, when a Widow PSAX is made to the specs of 63@29 and then is drawn consistently for 10+ years to 31.5" and does not stack or get more difficult to draw one iotta, that is pretty simple to then quantify that bow does not stack. That seems pretty simple.

When a Bear takedown is made to the specs of 70@28" and it is noticeably very difficult to continue another inch compared to the other 28".....I would say that is what is known as stacking.

Two very different bows.

 

[Newtosavage]

It is true that I haven't used all Widow bows to know if they all stack or not. However, when a Widow PSAX is made to the specs of 63@29 and then is drawn consistently for 10+ years to 31.5" and does not stack or get more difficult to draw one iotta, that is pretty simple to then quantify that bow does not stack. That seems pretty simple.

When a Bear takedown is made to the specs of 70@28" and it is noticeably very difficult to continue another inch compared to the other 28".....I would say that is what is known as stacking.

Two very different bows.

You've drawn a 70" Bear T/D?

Some people have bows that stack and just don't know it because they have not compared them to anything else.

Getting back to the original topic, my comment to the OP was that there is a lot of talk on established traditional forums, including the Leatherwall (arguably the first trad forum) about how Widows stack. That could all be tongue in cheek teasing. I don't know. I've never owned a Widow but I've shot a few. They don't work for me at my draw length. But one look at their design would tell you that.

If you know much at all about traditional bow design, it's not hard to figure out which models/designs are going to stack more or less than others.

 

[Sapcut]

You've drawn a 70" Bear T/D?

No I owned a 70#@28 for a while.

They don't work for me at my draw length. But one look at their design would tell you that.

Why does the Widow design tell you that?