Trad arrow help

[ddenney]

Hello all. I am getting into trad for hunting around my home. Will likely still hunt with my compound out west but want an extra challenge here in MO. I will likely purchase a satori down the road but for now I want to start with what i have. I have a hoyt tiburon 45 lb and a ptf widow. I have some axis 500s that I would like to set up to get started that i bought cheap. I have a relatively short 27.5" draw with my compounds.
How would you set these up to start? I do have break off brass inserts I can use. I'd like to use my 100gr pts that I have a million of but can put in the brass inserts to add weight. How short should I cut them? This is a new venture for me and would like to learn as much as possible to be able to hunt with it next spring/fall..
Thank you all

 

[North Idaho Stickbow]

I always hop on 3 Rivers and run my spine setup through the spine calculator to get it close. That gets me 90% of the way, and I bareshaft tune after that to get it dialed in.

I think the 500s with a brass insert and 100 gr head would work well through that bow. The question would be arrow length.

 

[Billy Goat]

Leave them long and work your way to shorter.


The calculators will get you close usually, but I prefer to start long and cut a little at a time til I get them right. 500's should work but I suspect you will be 30" or so. I'm a 27.25 on a stick and use 500's for low 40#.

 

[Felix40]

Start long and cut them a little at a time until you get the flight you want. Merlin Archery has a good bare shaft tuning video on YouTube.

 

[Wrench]

You can run an aluminum insert and a bolt with washers to get to your tune. Once you get there, weigh it and see if you need to trim your shaft.

Stay long because moving the weight back (100gr insert) doesn't act exactly the same as up front....but close. You can dial in from there.

 

[Fjtoyman]

Your going to be real close to being under spined with those 500s and 200 grains up front. I would not go any shorter than 29” on your arrows. Most people’s draw length will increase a little after they have shot trad for a while.
A 500 spine carbon is equal to 63 pounds of spine AMO. The Widow with the 200 grains up front will want to shoot a 74# arrow. If you go with the stock aluminum insert I think they would shoot great at 29”.
HTH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dutchman]

When you start cutting arrow shafts, stuff can change quickly and dramatically. The suggestions to leave them long were spot on. Monkey around with point weight by getting a test kit from 3Rivers. Carbon shafts can be easy to tune, or they can be a beast, depending on who you talk to. I haven't had too many problems, but some brands with supposedly the same spine fly differently for me. Your luck may be better than mine.

 

[shoeshineman]

I'm a 27" recurve draw length and I'm pulling 44.6lbs at that draw length. I'm bare shafting well (I still have a bit of room to super-tune still), with a 25# springy rest, at 25 yards with the following setup;

Point weight = 280 grains (15 grain insert + 265 point)
500 spine cut at 28 13/16" (measure from throat of nock to end of cut shaft)

---I found that when my bareshaft was cut at >29", I was getting tailslap and crazy arrow flight.

If I was shooting your 100 grain head, with whatever insert weight, I would start bareshafting with a 600 spine arrow (to keep it under the 29" max length).


EDIT: Im using the victory vforce 500 spine arrows. I don't think all 500 spine arrows are equal. My other company/brand 500 spine arrows dont bareshaft the same with the same build out. One company/brand may work better with different build outs.

 

[Billy Goat]

When you start cutting arrow shafts, stuff can change quickly and dramatically. The suggestions to leave them long were spot on. Monkey around with point weight by getting a test kit from 3Rivers. Carbon shafts can be easy to tune, or they can be a beast, depending on who you talk to. I haven't had too many problems, but some brands with supposedly the same spine fly differently for me. Your luck may be better than mine.

The same spine within a brand doesn't always mean the same spine. They are commonly batch sorted, however they generally have a range. A 400 spine might be 450 or 375. If you buy a dozen they should run close. But a dozen a year later might actually be a fair amount different. I think Easton has a process in their manufacturing that is supposed to give them a consistent spine, batch after batch.

Aluminum is very consistent, the spine difference is in carbon shafts.

 

[Dutchman]

The same spine within a brand doesn't always mean the same spine. They are commonly batch sorted, however they generally have a range. A 400 spine might be 450 or 375. If you buy a dozen they should run close. But a dozen a year later might actually be a fair amount different. I think Easton has a process in their manufacturing that is supposed to give them a consistent spine, batch after batch.

Aluminum is very consistent, the spine difference is in carbon shafts.

I have not found that to be the case. What I meant to type was that the differences between one brand and another, even though the shafts are sold as being the same spine, will behave differently. I have not expereinced what you are describing, at least not with the brands I have used.

 

[North Idaho Stickbow]

Different brands will have different grains per inch at the same spine, which is why I think they’ll act differently.

 

[Billy Goat]

I have not found that to be the case. What I meant to type was that the differences between one brand and another, even though the shafts are sold as being the same spine, will behave differently. I have not expereinced what you are describing, at least not with the brands I have used.

Might be you haven't noticed it, it does happen. It's probably not a big deal. Earlier this year I bought a half dozen gold tip hunter pro's. I sorted through 3 dozen hunter xt's to find 6 that were within +-.015 on spine of the hunter pro's.

Wouldn't surprise me tho if it did end up messing up someone's tune at some point. They can easily range .030+-. So you could potentially end up .060 off. Like a 400 spine could be .440-.370. 340's will go .370-.320. The longer arrow you shoot the more it will show up.

So many variables between brands it's things other than just spine that come into play.

 

[Wrench]

I'm pretty lucky. I'm a thing hitter and not a paper puncher so I thought I lacked the talent to see such minor variations. Perhaps I'm actually awesome and my shafts were just a fuzz different.