Trad bow advice

[Cheptastic]

Looking for some advice about a good, relatively inexpensive recurve bow for a beginner. I would like to add archery to my hunting repertoire and like the idea of a recurve. I am not opposed to a used bow to start with, if it makes sense. Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[NoRush24]

Can’t go wrong with a light poundage Samick sage or galaxy sage from Lancaster to get you started!

 

[wildwilderness]

Absolutely go to a Bow shop that focuses on traditional archery. Shoot a number of bows, be sure to start with light poundage. They will usually have used bows for sale. Would be worth a days drive if none near by.

 

[Wilderlife]

Just grab a Samick Sage or Mandarin Duck Black Hunter and get shooting. 40# limbs would be a good place to start and then later grab a set of 50# or 55#.

 

[FLAK]

Ebay

 

[Kentucky]

What’s your DL?

 

[mfsights257]

Check out Big Jim's in S Georgia, he knows his stuff, has used bows too.

Home - Big Jim's Bow Company

Welcome to Big Jim’s Bow Company The Place for Custom Bows, Handmade Leather Goods and Much More to Meet Your Traditional Archery Needs! Shop Now! Some of Our Popular Products ... Read more

bigjimsbowcompany.com

 

[Beendare]

Cheap ILF setup.....with long light limbs.

A 70# compound has you at 14# at full draw. Its a mistake to go too heavy to start....and with the multitude of cheap $50,$60 limbs for ILF recurves....its not worth wrecking your shoulder.

Most guys can't get over the poundage issue thinking a light 30#,35# recurve is not manly. Its not that at all. Its important to let your body adjust....the small muscle groups around your shoulder need to to develop control at full draw....other wise you get bad habits.

Its critical that you can easily aim......and control the shot to learn proper form. If you skip this step going heavier....it will take you longer to learn back tension and proper form with a stick bow.

Then once you master that lighter setup...you will know what its supposed to feel like at FD with the heavier bow. For the mid range limbs, a $170-$270 WNS limb is an incredible bang for the buck [check ALT Services in the UK] I have some #240 Carbon/Foam WNS limbs that feel better and have better performance than every custom bow I've tried. My favorite limb right now is the Uukha Vx, which cost me $600/used. Don't start with something like that.....cheap, cheap to start....you will be shocked how smooth some of those cheap limbs feel.

No reason to shoot a heavy stick bow unless you just really want shoulder surgery. I'm a big dude....and I hunt with a 50# ILF recurve. It zips a 585gr arrow....... and they blow through everything I shoot...unless I hit big bones.

If you need more info feel free to ping me.....

 

[Cheptastic]

Cheap ILF setup.....with long light limbs.

A 70# compound has you at 14# at full draw. Its a mistake to go too heavy to start....and with the multitude of cheap $50,$60 limbs for ILF recurves....its not worth wrecking your shoulder.

Most guys can't get over the poundage issue thinking a light 30#,35# recurve is not manly. Its not that at all. Its important to let your body adjust....the small muscle groups around your shoulder need to to develop control at full draw....other wise you get bad habits.

Its critical that you can easily aim......and control the shot to learn proper form. If you skip this step going heavier....it will take you longer to learn back tension and proper form with a stick bow.

Then once you master that lighter setup...you will know what its supposed to feel like at FD with the heavier bow. For the mid range limbs, a $170-$270 WNS limb is an incredible bang for the buck [check ALT Services in the UK] I have some #240 Carbon/Foam WNS limbs that feel better and have better performance than every custom bow I've tried. My favorite limb right now is the Uukha Vx, which cost me $600/used. Don't start with something like that.....cheap, cheap to start....you will be shocked how smooth some of those cheap limbs feel.

No reason to shoot a heavy stick bow unless you just really want shoulder surgery. I'm a big dude....and I hunt with a 50# ILF recurve. It zips a 585gr arrow....... and they blow through everything I shoot...unless I hit big bones.

If you need more info feel free to ping me.....

Really appreciate the advice. It all makes sense and I definitely don't want to develop bad habits right out of the blocks (or have surgery). I will definitely hit you up as I move through the process if that's cool. Thanks again

 

[Beendare]

No worries, happy to help.

Many guys start with stick bows....and give up....the reason of course is it gets to be no fun when you cannot hit what you are aiming at. This is a function of poor form....which is a direct function of not being able to control the bow- too heavy to start.

So many reasons to go super light in the beginning that lots of us macho hunting types miss [guilty myself]

Its much easier to "Feel" good form with a 30# bow; feel the exact same anchor....feel back tension.....feel proper alignment. These are KEY factors. Sure you can shoot a 40# stick bow out of the gate...but you can't shoot 50-100 arrows while feeling the many components of the shot.

It really only costs you a set of lighter spine arrows...as you can trade off the light ILF limbs for about what you paid for them on AT classifieds.

Its not a matter of strength....I'm a big pretty strong guy- I weight lift and shot 80# compounds my whole life. I started at 45#....and it took me a lot longer to develop form. I had to drop down- then I FINALLY got it.

A top stick bow guy from our club let me borrow a 30# lefty bow that was 70" long.....and it was only then that I started to "Feel" correct form. I bought lighter limbs that are 30# at 30"DL for $60 for my 17" ILF riser and worked with those until my repeatable form kicked in and the light bulb went off- bingo!

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[Cheptastic]

That's all great info and consistent with some advice a good friend and bow hunter has provided. Just as a point of information, we measured my DL at 28 1/2 and he was saying that a 62" overall length was a good starting point. Are you suggesting that 70" is better. I'm 5'9'' on my best day if that matters. Also, I am totally fine shooting light to begin with, I want to get this right from the beginning. No machismo issues here. Thanks again for taking the time to point me in the right direction!

 

[mfsights257]

That's all great info and consistent with some advice a good friend and bow hunter has provided. Just as a point of information, we measured my DL at 28 1/2 and he was saying that a 62" overall length was a good starting point. Are you suggesting that 70" is better. I'm 5'9'' on my best day if that matters. Also, I am totally fine shooting light to begin with, I want to get this right from the beginning. No machismo issues here. Thanks again for taking the time to point me in the right direction!

With your DL -If you are going w/ a Longbow 64 -70 "; 62" Recurve is perfect. Longer length bows tend to be smoother in general. But 70" in a tree stand is tough.

 

[Beendare]

You could shoot a 58" 62" bow....most in that DL shoot a 60" +/- recurve. I too agree 62" is a good length for you....longer is a little bit more forgiving and easier to shoot with less string pinch.

Plus, if you ever want to string walk or shoot a fixed crawl [a deadly accurate slot distance shooting technique] ....the longer bows are better

 

[Beendare]

I sent this to a couple other guys....this commentary might help you.

FWIW, there are many ways to skin a cat on trad gear...and "my way" is by no means the only way.

For example, I'm not a LB fan but a longbow is an amazing weapon in the right hands....and whisper quiet. I didn't like the vibration- it messed up my elbow. LB's are a little bit higher degree of difficulty and the performance is less in most cases....much less in some....but if you are shooting very close 10-20yd hunting shots, there might not be a better weapon.

Comments to others offline on ILF recurves;
Cheap fiberglass wood core limbs are surprisingly good. I wouldn't worry about brand. Sure some might be lesser quality and possibly delaminate after 5 years or so....but they served their purpose.

What you will find is those cheap $60 limbs are pretty darn nice....way better than the price dictates. The difference between cheap/Expensive in the ILF limbs is of course better quality and materials....but also weight. The expensive limbs are surprisingly only a little bit better in incremental performance.

ILF Limb weight is measured on a 25" riser...they are typically 4#-8# heavier on a 17" riser...a little bit less on a 19" riser. So you might have to oder 25#-30# limbs to start on a 17" riser. Not all 17/19" limb pockets are the same angle....so those poundages may vary.

Examples; My cheap $60 Axiom limbs are just about as smooth drawing as any limb.....but due to them being heavier, the performance is less....and there is a little more vibration after the shot.

If you were blindfolded and shot my older $240 SF Carbon/foam limbs [now WNS branded] vs my W&W Innos which are in the $600 range.....you would have a very hard time telling the difference. Performance wise...they are so close its not worth measuring....though the Innos are a couple FPS faster...and a tiny bit less vibration...but its VERY close. I have never felt a custom bow limb that comes close to a $250 WNS limb. [sorry custom guys]

You will get some increased performance with the super curve limbs; MK, Uukha, Border....but these are typically much more expensive. My favorite; a used pair of Uukha Vx's [$900 new] and they are about 8 fps faster than my comparable limbs.....and quiet albeit at a higher BH. The Uukha Ex1 evo's at about $375 are a great hunting limb for the $$ too.

I think those WNS limbs in that $200-$300 range in Carbon/foam or carbon/wood are an incredible value that a guy will have a hard time beating unless he spends $400/$500 more. But get the cheapies to start.

String about 59"....you will have to play with Brace height...some limbs like 6 3/4"...some higher like my Uukha limbs like 7 3/8". Get a bow stringer....I like the Selway one with the pouch on one end and a rubber triangle that wedges against the limb on the other end....I can't string my Uukhas without it.

Tune; Don't worry about tune or accuracy for a couple weeks. 400's full length are about perfect for the avg 40#-45# recurve, but they will probably be too stiff for 30#/35#.....load them up with 250/300 gr points. Its hard to get a tune until you develop consistency....in fact its frustrating as heck. A stiff arrow will still shoot in the same hole...if you have good form...but it will shoot a little left for a RH shooter if too stiff.

Aiming; The bigger the gap between where you anchor and your eye....makes accuracy tougher. Example, the olympic guys anchor under their chin....but it makes sense as they are shooting 70/90m.

No matter your aiming style, you want that vertical distance on your face as close to your eye as possible. I anchor high on my cheek. Ideally, if you can get the arrow up near your eye. Its tough to get it that high....unless you do what's called a Fixed Crawl. Lots of youtube vids on this...and its how the top shooters in tourneys shoot 20 yd targets [see the Lancaster tourney vids. You find a spot on the string below the arrow that puts the non right next to your eye and tip of the arrow on a 20 yd spot. You shoot that like a shotgun. For me its about a 7/8" crawl down the string. This lets you use the tip of the arrow like a pin. Super accurate at slot distances.

String walking is very effective too....but I don't like it for hunting as you don't get good arrow flight for many distances outside of what you have it tuned for. For example, if you tuned for your finger touching the nok, a 1 1/4" crawl down the string will give you poor arrow flight.

Arrows; [ Don't worry about this for at least a couple of weeks] You can adjust the length of the arrow to shorten your Point on distance; the longer arrow gives you a shorter PO. Perfect spine is critical with a stickbow. There is no perfect chart. You have to have an idea of a arrow weight you want especially if front loading.

Example; I can shoot 400's and 340's in my 50#/ 64"/30" DL recurve with the Vx's [very high performance]

If shooting the 400's I need to cut them 30 1/2" with std insert and 100gr or 125gr points- about 425gr total. My PO is about 50 yds.

I shoot a 585gr hunting arrow for everything, Centershot 340's, 31" with a 50 gr insert and 150 gr BH, my PO is 38 yds.....keeping my gap at 20 yds less than one inch....where its 1 1/4" with the 400's.

I get mine close.....then shoot a couple bare shafts long and cut them down in 1/4" increments until perfect. Bare shaft tuning....and shooting bare shafts to check your form is the way to go with a stick bow.

I anchor high on my cheek...about 1 1/2"-2" below my eye. My point on distance is 38 yds. So the high point in the arc of the arrow is right about 20 yds. At 20 yds, this equates to a gap of 7/8" between the arrow tip and spot. At 15/25 yds, its about 3/4". At 30 yds, its 1/4".

I draw to that gap in my peripheral vision, aim....then focus on the spot and shoot. Instinctive aiming guys benefit from having that gap smaller also....as you are seeing the tip of that arrow whether you realize it or not.

Coming from a compound, you will know enough about archery to know intuitively what you are doing right and wrong. Grip is much touchier with a stick bow, not gripping perfectly straight pushes arrows from side to side. You will know when you pluck....I never really knew back tension until I shot a recurve for awhile...as I'm a puncher with a compound.

I wouldn't worry about accuracy at first....I would shoot at 5 paces blind bale shooting and concentrating on the different parts of your shot.

Video yourself shooting from different angles- though over the top is best- you will quickly see if your alignment is good...if you are hitting the exact same DL every time, if you are plucking or collapsing.

Key is developing that form. Most guys never do and get frustrated...simply a function of the bow being too heavy. You have to be able to hold that bow at anchor while aiming and actually feel the different components of the shot.

Stick bows are so much more critical...its easy to scatter arrows and get frustrated. They are lighter....and any tiny flaw on the shot is amplified....vs a compound. My compound literally sits still in my hand with little effort...not so with a recurve...and worse with a longbow.


The good news; A stick bow will invigorate you! There is something about them....I can't put my finger on it.

Tougher to hunt with especially on the ground. Easy from. a tree but on the ground is a whole different ballgame. Tough to draw on elk coming in. Tough to rattle whitetails. I'm just starting to figure out how to be more successful on game after hunting whitetails on the ground on public WMA's this fall.


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[Rolen]

Like others have said start lighter then you think. I started with a 55 lb recurve and I was way over bowed.
the Samic sage bows are great to get going with, they were re labeled the edge by fleet wood if I remember correctly.
find a coach or at least someone who is familiar with trad bows to help you get started. After that start stump shooting, blowing stalks and enjoy the addiction!

 

[Wvlungbuster]

Look for a used satori riser, and some cheap light weight limbs. You can always up grade the limbs down the road.

 

[Kentucky]

I didn’t like satori. I think DAS is hard to beat when it comes to 17” riser..

Different strokes for different folks.. you soon realize the preference of trad equipment varies greatly between the archers that use it..but it is fun, sometimes expensive wading through it.. it helps buying a riser with interchangeable grips that are readily available on the used market.

 

[Beendare]

I've shot the Das, have a couple Tradtechs in 17 and 19, shot one of the TT wood risers, shot the old Hoyt Gamegetter, Own a Morrison 17 [wood] and a Dryad 19" wood]...and I'm probably missing a couple.

My take,
Get something cheap to start.....seriously. You will develop preferences over time and be able to dump it later on the AT classifieds for almost what you paid when you want to trade up. The mechanics are the same.

The Morrison, Trad tech, Dryad metal risers are excellent. The mass weight of these just makes them a more stable shooting platform. I can't comment on Satori....never found a lefty with one. I'm skeptical of the super heavy WD risers by Dwayne Martin...unless you are a straight target guy then thumbs up.

The wood risers vary in mass.....and vary a lot in quality. The cheap mass produced Chinese risers like the TT's are only so so IMO...[though fine to start with]

The best Wood risers I've seen or used are Morrison, the South Cox Stryker ILF's, and the Dryads.... it could be that more of the excellent custom guys are making these now, I dunno.

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[Newtosavage]

Can’t go wrong with a light poundage Samick sage or galaxy sage from Lancaster to get you started!

This

 

[Solitude]

Agree, Samick Sage is a great cost effective start! Jump to ILF is cost is not a major concern for you.

Figure out if you really want to take the plung first.

I purchased a Samick Sage, with a set of low poundage limbs, one hunting weight set, and these two sets propelled me well on my way several years ago. I sold the bow after a couple years, no problem, and have never looked back! Now I split hairs between the finer nuances of the traditional archery journey!

Enjoy the ride!!