Tragic bear attack

bsnedeker

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I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you aren't comfortable carrying with one in the chamber you may as well not carry at all. A defensive side-arms sole purpose is to defend your life in the event it is threatened. You should not be doing administrative work when your life is threatened.
 
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I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you aren't comfortable carrying with one in the chamber you may as well not carry at all. A defensive side-arms sole purpose is to defend your life in the event it is threatened. You should not be doing administrative work when your life is threatened.

This is rhetoric, IMO. Certainly there is some gulf of probability between 0 and 1 that one could draw and rack a round before needing to fire a shot. I’m not sure what the percentage is but I’d wager it’s pretty high, certainly more statistically significant than needing to draw at all.
 

ThisIsMyHandle

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That gun was a paperweight without a chambered round. I wouldn’t be walking anywhere in bear country like that. TBH I wouldn’t carry a pistol anywhere period without a chambered round.


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This right here says it all:

The OSHA alert on Uptain’s death urges Martin Outfitters, the company he worked for, to “evaluate its operating procedures for bear country.”

“Carry a defense readily accessible,” said a warning from the agency on hunting in areas where bears may be present. “The knowledge of how to use your defense should be automatic.”
 

bsnedeker

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This is rhetoric, IMO. Certainly there is some gulf of probability between 0 and 1 that one could draw and rack a round before needing to fire a shot. I’m not sure what the percentage is but I’d wager it’s pretty high, certainly more statistically significant than needing to draw at all.

Yeah, of course! There is also a probability between 0 and 1 that you could take an entirely disassembled weapon, put it together, insert a magazine, rack the chamber, get on target, pull the trigger...does that mean that makes any sense at all? No, it does not. Keep you weapon ready. If you are afraid of an accidental discharge it is because you are ill-equipped to handle said firearm. It means you don't practice with that gun to the point you are comfortable with it. It means you have a holster that you don't have confidence in.

Don't carry if you are afraid of guns. Call it rhetoric if you want, it just sounds like common sense to me.
 

Anschutz

Lil-Rokslider
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It's an older article but a lot can be learned.

Main thing is this: If you feel you need to carry a firearm for bear protection you should be proficient enough to feel safe carrying it with a round in the chamber. I have a Ruger SR1911 10mm and carry it occasionally but have not put enough rounds through it to trust it. I mainly carry a Smith 627 while small game hunting. I've put enough 38 short colt through it to know the primer is going to be lit every time and have put a few boxes of 180gr Grizzly Cartridge through it to know I can shoot it quickly and accurately not as fast as Minor PF 38 Short Colt but fast enough.
 
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WDE91

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Anschutz, I did not check the date.
Sure enough, you're right it's an older article.

It was my first time seeing it.
 
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Yeah, of course! There is also a probability between 0 and 1 that you could take an entirely disassembled weapon, put it together, insert a magazine, rack the chamber, get on target, pull the trigger...does that mean that makes any sense at all? No, it does not. Keep you weapon ready. If you are afraid of an accidental discharge it is because you are ill-equipped to handle said firearm. It means you don't practice with that gun to the point you are comfortable with it. It means you have a holster that you don't have confidence in.

Don't carry if you are afraid of guns. Call it rhetoric if you want, it just sounds like common sense to me.

This is retarded.
 

Anschutz

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Anschutz, I did not check the date.
Sure enough, you're right it's an older article.

It was my first time seeing it.
I hadn't seen it either. I did find one comment intriguing "Some have said the 10mm is close to the 41 Magnum". It has been said by people who can't go to Buffalo Bore's website and look data. I'm sure most here know but, just in case, here are the energy numbers for the highest energy hard cast offerings from BB.

1) 44 Mag (300gr): 1189fpe, .233SD, 56 lb*s Momentum (Ability to carry and transfer energy to a target)
2) 41 Mag (265gr): 1072fpe, .225SD, 51 lb*s Momentum
3) 357 Mag (180gr): 783fpe, .201SD, 36 lb*s Momentum
4) 10mm (220gr): 703fpe, .187SD, 37 lb*s Momentum

All of these rounds have been successful and unsuccessful in stopping an angry bear so the numbers are really out the window. The best bet is to carry something you are both comfortable and proficient in carrying and using.
 
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As a point of clarification, my understanding from this situation is that the client is the one who tried to use it and couldn't, as the round was not in the chamber.

Sounds like the guide had taken it off so was out of reach.
 

bsnedeker

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Probably didn't chamber a round because there's no manual safety. More worried about a negligent discharge than a bear attack. Chances of the former are probably higher than the latter to be fair.

If you don't know how to handle firearms properly, yes, they are more likely. If you are trained and proficient and have the correct equipment (holster) the probability is zero.
 
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Probably didn't chamber a round because there's no manual safety. More worried about a negligent discharge than a bear attack. Chances of the former are probably higher than the latter to be fair.
I'd reckon to guess there are 100's of thousands of glocks carried daily with one in the chamber. I don't hear of ND's. Maybe they happen but they are carried safely with one in the chamber by tons of people. I feel that either you have a carry system that gives you comfort with one chambered or you should carry a different weapon that allows you to feel comfortable with one chambered.

My recollection of this story is the guide may have used bear spray? I can only understand not having one chambered if your sidearm is a secondary bear deterrent to bear spray.
 

hflier

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Probably didn't chamber a round because there's no manual safety. More worried about a negligent discharge than a bear attack. Chances of the former are probably higher than the latter to be fair.
Its all in the holster.

A gun for defense that doesn't have one in the chamber is useless. Most defense situations are split second whether animal or human. You don't have time to chamber a round. Old school thinking on needing a safety to be safe is wrong.
 

AZ8

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This was talked about a bunch. Mostly how the hunter tossed the gun to the guide then took off.
Yeah, a lot of details left out of from the above article.

Here’s an update with a bit more info. Sounds to me like the hunter, not knowing how to use the gun, may have emptied the chamber. All speculation.

 

sreal217

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Have 45 acp ,would this be ideal for stopping a bear?if not I'd take a family member 357
 
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