Tuning problems with carbons

[Rogue925]

I read a lot here but this is my first actual post. I’m having a tremendous amount of trouble in tuning carbon shafts. Been shooting a longbow for many, many years and used only wood. Tried carbon for the first time a couple of years ago and I’ve had nothing but problems. I’m currently shooting a Taipan II longbow from JD Berry. Forward handle design and 50 @ my full 28” draw. As a side note, the bow shoots with complete authority! Fast! At any rate I’ve tried both 500 and 400 spine. Trying to shoot 200 grains up front with a full length shaft. I’m willing to go as high as a 250 grain head but I just can’t seem to get consistent flight. I’m using Tom Clum’s methods and my form, for the most part, is dialed in. Any suggestions on spine or what may be going on? The best I can describe the arrow flight is just erratic. Could be a breakdown in form but nothing seems to really be consistent. Seems I’m not really able to go by what the charts say and make it work. Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[sneaky]

What carbons are you trying? Tremendous variation between different manufacturers carbons in the same spines. You shooting standard carbons?.204s? Micros? They all play in. When you say erratic, erratic in what way?

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[A.Hutch]

Also, Have you bareshafted? what are the results? are they fairly consistant results? erratic results? how far away are you bare shafting, if you are?


Hutch

 

[Rogue925]

I’ve tried mostly Gold Tip and Black Eagle Carnivore. I have bare shafted both with mixed results. Sometimes tearing left and right with the same weight field point. Other times straight through. I use a limb mounted clicker so I’m coming to full draw every time. When just shooting it seems there’s no rhyme or reason behind the flight. I realize some of that is no doubt me. I’ve also fletched in about every combination from 3” feathers to 5.5 inch. 3 fletch. 4 fletch. I never seemed to have any real problems with wood shafts. I’m not ready to give up on carbon but I don’t know what to do next. The guy at the pro shop seems a bit perplexed as well.

 

[Rogue925]

Bare shafting at about 10 yards

 

[Beendare]

Don't take this the wrong way....but its not the carbon shafts.

Do you have the FP test kit from 3 rivers or that ranch fairy kit with multiple weight FP's? Experiment with those to get the right spine.

That bow with 28" DL, 50# and 200gr total up front, my guess is 500 is about right...maybe 400's. Test with the different point weights to determine stiff or weak bare shaft.

IMO, too many guys get locked in to their point weight or achieving some magic high FOC number.....its all about arrow flight. My advice, Let the bow tell you what it likes [flies best]

_____

 

[A.Hutch]

With whats been said, I'm gonna throw this in there. Your working on a lot of different things all one time, it seems. You've mentioned Mr. Clums' teachings, good start by the way! Now at any point in tuning, if form or release are not consistent, then neither will the perceived results of tuning. Even with bad form, bad release, so long as they are consistent, the results will be also.
As far as spine/tip weight go, I'm gonna agree with Beendare. 400 spine/200tip should have you in the ball park. with that said, I would suggest leaving your bareshaft alone until your able to get a consistent result. Then you can work on adjusting the tune accurately.
Hope this helps, if not, screw it, send me all your stuff.....lol


Hutch

 

[Rogue925]

Suggestions much appreciated. I’ll try the test kits. From what little I can tell I’m right there at the 500/400 spine at 200 up front. I don’t get wrapped up in FOC or anything like that. Mostly trying to hit around a 500 grain total arrow weight, give or take some here or there. I’m going to go back to the archery shop and see what happens. I have really dug in on my form so hopefully that makes it easier.

 

[sneaky]

I agree with what's already been posted. You're trying to change too many things at once. Until you nail down your form you can have wildly inconsistent results. I can change my POI a foot at 20yds by thumb pressure alone. Longbows generally tune different than recurves, but you should have consistent results before trying ONE change. If you get erratic results, don't change point weight, shaft length and fletching all at the same time. Change one and test. Side plate thickness and hardness matters too. Were you using a clicker when you were using wood shafts too?

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[Rogue925]

Sneaky. Not using a clicker when I used wood shafts. Those were the days of darkness when target panic ruled. Arrows flew great but....... Tom Clum showed me the light, lol. Made it to his shop a couple of times over the last year or two from Tennessee. I learned more about how to shoot in two sessions than I had learned in over twenty years. I also purchased Solid Archery Mechanics which has helped a lot. The main thing is that I know next to nothing about really tuning arrow to bow. The woodies worked very well for me at the time but I’m trying to shoot carbons now. I appreciate the comments and suggestions. All of them. I’ll stick with one variable at a time and go from there.

 

[sndmn11]

I have had issues with arrow flight using clickers with the cord anything bigger than serving.

 

[sneaky]

Sneaky. Not using a clicker when I used wood shafts. Those were the days of darkness when target panic ruled. Arrows flew great but....... Tom Clum showed me the light, lol. Made it to his shop a couple of times over the last year or two from Tennessee. I learned more about how to shoot in two sessions than I had learned in over twenty years. I also purchased Solid Archery Mechanics which has helped a lot. The main thing is that I know next to nothing about really tuning arrow to bow. The woodies worked very well for me at the time but I’m trying to shoot carbons now. I appreciate the comments and suggestions. All of them. I’ll stick with one variable at a time and go from there.

Where are you located in Tennessee? I moved out here from Tennessee almost 6 years ago and I know some excellent trad guys back that way. I really like Tom and all the RMS guys, but you could have saved a lot of money and went and seen Rod Jenkins down in Huntsville lol. I spent two days down there working with him, money well spent. Had another friend who went to the guy in Arkansas, the IBO world champion who builds bows... Rick Welch. Depending on where you are in TN I may be able to get you sorted on the tuning with those carbons.

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[bjfoxhoven]

I agree that it probably isn’t the arrows. Shooting bareshafts tell you a ton (if you have good form). Things to check with the arrows though is square ends (especially nock end), proper nock fit, two nocking points on the string, and fletching clearance. Pretty sure all those things could cause some issues with flight (in my case it is just inconsistent form/release usually). I have had one arrow that flew completely difference than the others which was an outlier. Number the arrows, you may notice trends.

Keep it ip with coaching. It’s amazing how many years it will shave off the learning curve to repeatable accuracy.

 

[A.Hutch]

If worse comes to worse, and you still have issues, check sting grooves on the limb tips, or slight warpage of a limb, It does happen.



Hutch

 

[Rogue925]

Where are you located in Tennessee? I moved out here from Tennessee almost 6 years ago and I know some excellent trad guys back that way. I really like Tom and all the RMS guys, but you could have saved a lot of money and went and seen Rod Jenkins down in Huntsville lol. I spent two days down there working with him, money well spent. Had another friend who went to the guy in Arkansas, the IBO world champion who builds bows... Rick Welch. Depending on where you are in TN I may be able to get you sorted on the tuning with those carbons.

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I’m in Murfreesboro TN, about 20 minutes SE of Nashville. Also not far from Huntsville. Anyone you may be able to hook me up with would be appreciated. I don’t know all the nuances of proper tuning although I’ve shot for many years. I used to just grab some woodies in the proper range, fletch them up and go. As long as the arrow appeared to fly straight I thought I was good to go. I’ve managed some kills “in spite of what I did” not “because of what I did.”

 

[oldgoat]

I'd do the bare shaft with all the different weight tips you might have and maybe disconnect the string on the clicker too, I remember Aron saying he had one that was way heavier breaking point to click than another that was throwing his tune off. For 50# @28" I can't imagine you would need stiffer than .400 but it's possible if that bow has a deep cut shelf. Also possible you might need .600 spine is shelf isn't cut deep.

 

[A.Hutch]

I sure do hope you can get it all lined out. It took me what seemed like forever to wrap my head around tuning and being able to separate tuning issues from form issues. Then one day, it was like a light turned on, it all made sence to me.....lol
So I know your struggle, and me being me, I hate to see a brother struggle. so remember, there is a solution to every problem! And sometimes we may not like a particular solution. With that said, I'll throw this out there, If the burden becomes unbearable, I'll shoot you my address, and I'll even pay shipping.....
LOL....in all seriousness, you'll get it figured out....But if ya don't, I'm here for ya...lol
Be good brother!!


Hutch

 

[Rogue925]

Thanks for the suggestions and help. With everything I have here I think I can work it out. Now all I need is a good archery shop that knows a little about traditional bows. Shouldn’t be THAT difficult I wouldn’t think. Actually I don’t even need that. Just a shop run by someone with patience, haha .

 

[A.Hutch]

You find a modern bow shop that has someone with "trad" knowledge... you an me are goin leprychaun huntin!!!


Hutch

 

[sneaky]

Several good shops in TN with lots of trad knowledge. It isn't that difficult to find one in almost any area unless your shops just suck. OP, you need to go up to TwinOaks outside of Clarksville. Not sure if they are going to cancel the IBO Worlds Trad shoot in July or not. Best trad shooters in the country will be there if the shoot stays on. Visitors can go to their club every Friday and Saturday during normal times, may want to check what their setup is now. Bobby Worthington lives in Pikeville he's been an IBO champ multiple times. Several clubs in your area have trad shooters that I used to shoot against at the state shoots. SE TN/N GA there's a strong trad shooting community. You have to decide how bad you really want to improve.

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