Tuning question

[WannabeHunter]

Just paper tuned an old bowtech pro38. Now the arrow is angled toward the ground considerably when nocked. See pic. Is this normal?

 

[WannabeHunter]

I have heard a combo of whisker biscuit and single cam can cause this. Am I way off?

 

[Billy Goat]

What distance did you paper tune? And did you try other distances. I honestly don't put a lot into it. I hardly mess with it. I'll walk back and then broadhead tune.. I can't imagine you will get very good broadhead flight from that.

I'm assuming you started with your arrow through the Berger hole?

 

[WannabeHunter]

This is all from 10 feet. Arrow started level and through the berger hole.
No issues horizontally but as you can see required considerable vertical adjustment.
Should I just tune until bare shafts impact at the same point as fletched and forget about paper tuning?

 

[finner]

Paper tuning is a dirty dirty lie

 

[WannabeHunter]

Paper tuning is a dirty dirty lie

I'd never done it before, but got new strings and wanted to give it a try. Learned my lesson I think.

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

What do your bareshafts tell you? I usually bareshaft close in the basement then at 20 if I’m good there I’ll put on a fixed head and check 20-60 and tweak from there but for 3 bows this year good bareshaft flight at 20 had fixed heads flying with field points at all distances

 

[Idaho Lefty]

If, you can afford it, PERSONALLY,.. I'd ditch, the WB and buy, a QAD ultra rest,. for about, $100-$120.00 then, BS tune and "Nock Index" your arrows with, FP's then, your Broadhead's should shoot with FP's at, that point ( If they are not huge B-H's ! ) See the video on YouTube, by Ranch Fairy on, Nock Indexing off , the Vanes,.. IT,.. really, "works" !
I'm getting, the BEST grouping and accuracy, I've ever had, since doing it ! Good luck !!

 

[Billy Goat]

Only thing I worry about is if my field points hit with my broadhead. My tuning is to walk back tune then I put on broadheads. Normally I use one broadhead and two field points. Shoot broadhead first followed by 2 field points. Work out to 75 yards or so. Making fine adjustments till everything is grouping together. I will usually switch broadheads between a few to make sure one head doesn't have something going on that is altering anything. It's a good way to burn up a broadhead target. Maybe I could save some time with bare shafts but the little I have messed with it I don't see it saving me much time. Maybe just targets.

 

[RosinBag]

I respectfully disagree with some of the others and that paper tuning is a lie or not needed. After I paper tune and nock tune, I am almost always spot on with bare shafts or very very close.

I can tell you your nick is sitting way to high for any bow. I would double check all your specs on cables and string. Make sure your cams have the same module and are in time.

I would also second dumping the WB. It is a very poor arrow rest. A drop away will help in every aspect. Lastly if your nick is running more than a ¼” high something is a miss.

 

[WannabeHunter]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I’m going to reset everything at level and try bareshaft tuning.

It’s a single cam bow and am I’m dead in the factory timing spec.

Not going to a drop away. Don’t really want to start that debate here. But I think the difference is nominal for 95%ish of my hunting applications. This exact bow setup minus the new string has taken numerous game out to 50 yds.

I’m doing all this myself for the 1st time cause my proshop ain’t the same personality wise it was 2 yrs ago.

 

[doverpack12]

Make sure you use multiple arrows. If you just grabbed any arrow there is not guarantee it’s representative of the rest or matches any others for nock orientation in relation to spine. I like to shoot all of my bareshafts or fletcher through paper and rotate mocks until I get a fervent year with each. This will give you a good feel for what the bow is doing and also match up all of your arrows

 

[WannabeHunter]

So I happened to glance at my receipt from my “proshop”. Seems as those my string and cable are not sized correctly. I looked up the specs online in a bowtech manual (sticker on bow wore off). See attached pic. Looks like they put the wrong length of both on there. Mine is Pro38

Is that big of difference even possible ?

 

[Rob5589]

If the string is that short your ata will be way off and your bh way too long. Did you measure them? I found on my single cam PSE that the idler wheel at full draw should be straight, no lean, or it will not tune correctly. Do you happen to have a draw board?

 

[WannabeHunter]

Factory ATA: 36 11/16" Mine: 37"
Factory Brace: 7 3/8" Mine: 7 1/4"

So the receipt from the proshop can't be 100% accurate as to length.
But when remeasuring everything, I did notice by factory timing mark is off by 1/8". I originally measured from the wrong point until I looked up the specs online.

Was already planning on ordering a bowmaster mobile bow press and some other bow tools. I can take out some cable twist and add a little string twist to correct the timing.
Edit: No draw board as of now though.

Could that slight timing adjustment make that big a difference on a single cam bow?

 

[Rob5589]

Your ata/bh specs are close enough not to cause any significant issues. I had a shop tune mine and it ended up looking like yours. It wasn't until I built a draw board that I saw the idler wheel was leaned over so far it looking like the cable would displace. Some twists of the yoke and it squared up the wheel and paper tuned bullet holes.

Unless you can press it, there isn't anything you can do to get it into proper spec. I use a Bowmaster and it gets the job done, but is slow and tedious. A draw board is simple and inexpensive to build. Many are online. I used a cheap Harbor Freight trailer winch mounted to my work bench with a simple pipe and mount to hold the bow.

 

[nphunter]

Poor form would cause a good paper tear out of a poorly tuned bow. I can purposely take my bow out of tune and make it shoot bullet holes by changing my hand position. There is a lot of info online about how that bow should tune. I would read up and start there, it’s very hard to really tune a bow without a press.

Timing issues will have twice the effect on a single cam as a dual cam bow since everything is wrapped up around one big cam. Also cam lean has almost nothing to do with vertical nock travel. Timing will defiantly effect vertical travel though.

I’ve never tuned a single cam but I can confidently say you have a timing issue if the bow is shooting well with the nock that high. If you have one try tuning with a prong style rest. Once it’s tuned we’ll take some accurate measurements and put the biscuit on in its place.

 

[nphunter]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I’m going to reset everything at level and try bareshaft tuning.

It’s a single cam bow and am I’m dead in the factory timing spec.

Not going to a drop away. Don’t really want to start that debate here. But I think the difference is nominal for 95%ish of my hunting applications. This exact bow setup minus the new string has taken numerous game out to 50 yds.

I’m doing all this myself for the 1st time cause my proshop ain’t the same personality wise it was 2 yrs ago.

You will be light years ahead to remove that rest before tuning. The arrow contacts that rest for way too long to really get an idea of what is happening to the arrow when it leaves the string. The biscuit really magnifies torque as well, throwing away the whiskers biscuit was the single best thing I have done to my boys bows. There accuracy improved instantly by a large margin once I switched them to a drop away.

I’m also not going to sit here and debate but I’m telling you it’s a 100% fact that your bow will be more forgiving and easier to tune with that thing gone. It seems you are on here because you want to be able to tune your bow well, IMO switching to any other rest made will improve your ability to do so.

 

[WannabeHunter]

Poor form would cause a good paper tear out of a poorly tuned bow. I can purposely take my bow out of tune and make it shoot bullet holes by changing my hand position. There is a lot of info online about how that bow should tune. I would read up and start there, it’s very hard to really tune a bow without a press.

Timing issues will have twice the effect on a single cam as a dual cam bow since everything is wrapped up around one big cam. Also cam lean has almost nothing to do with vertical nock travel. Timing will defiantly effect vertical travel though.

I’ve never tuned a single cam but I can confidently say you have a timing issue if the bow is shooting well with the nock that high. If you have one try tuning with a prong style rest. Once it’s tuned we’ll take some accurate measurements and put the biscuit on in its place.

Duly noted from all aspects. I will correct the timing issue then try to tune again. If still not right I will video my form so I can look at it from a 3rd party perspective.

I really appreciate everyone's input. I have people around I trust for firearm issues, but we're all still green archery tinkers.

 

[arcey]

x2 on walk back tuning