Ultra-Lite Velocity Testing

sabotloader

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Got time this morning to run to the farm to get another round of shooting in. When I got there I almost did not think I was going to get to shoot. The dang farmer was there hooking up equipment to go do some farming. Couldn't believe he would want to farm the farm when I wanted to shoot! Marty is a great guy though and he said just to let him get over the hill and up the draw and I could go ahead and shoot.

Got every thing set up while he was hooking up and driving away... My goals for today were to get some velocities on the two of the bullets that I use most often with three different powders. I really do not use BH to hunt with or shoot with that much but I thought someone might want to know the velocities I was getting.

This is the target with information. 18 shots and one ragged hole. I know it could be better but in my defense I am more concerned with not hitting the chronograph than getting the perfect group. But you can see or I can tell you the 120 grain loads elevated the point of impact on the target. I really did want to shoot those 120 grain loads as that is my normal hunting load and I wanted see how this short light weight rifle would handle that load.

TargetComposite-2.jpg


Oh.. one other thing that kept creeping into my mind - what a waste of very good bullets - I really wanted to switch to a less expensive bulk bullet but yet I wanted the velocities to reflect that bullet I would be actually using for hunting... so and not much of a pun intended - I bit the bullet and shot the correct ones.

Additional pictures of the morning setup...

VelocityTestingComposite.jpg


One last thing I am really impressed with this rifle and the scope so far both of these are new products to me.
 

Travis Bertrand

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Mike,
Why do you not hunt with bh209?
Those velocities are very consistent. I find the ff and fff 110gr interesting, the ff looked to be more consistent and a higher average velocity... Fluke?
 
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sabotloader

sabotloader

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Mike,
Why do you not hunt with bh209?

Way to expensive per shot for me. If all I did was hunt a few days if the year - I would certainly use BH. But I end up shooting 7-10 pounds if T7 each year @ $20 per pound. Now then multiply that times the same amount of BH and it only comes in 10oz jugs... Well that is not true either you can get it in 8# jugs but way more money.

Those velocities are very consistent. I find the ff and fff 110gr interesting, the ff looked to be more consistent and a higher average velocity... Fluke?

Remember also that I am measuring by volume so there is bound to be some variation, but I did also notice that the 120 grain loads with the 300 grain bullet were pretty consistent.
 

Travis Bertrand

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Remember also that I am measuring by volume so there is bound to be some variation, but I did also notice that the 120 grain loads with the 300 grain bullet were pretty consistent.

Yes I noticed that as well, that's why the 110 was interesting. Thanks for posting up all of this info.
 
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sabotloader

sabotloader

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I just ran the ballistic sheets for the shots today.

I did not run separate sheets for the T7-3f loads as they would be very close to the 2f loads. Also did not run the 110 grain BH loads as they too would be very close.

The sheets also have 6" PBR computed into them.

275110T7.jpg


275120T7.jpg


300120T7.jpg


300120BH.jpg
 

Umpqua Hunter

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Way to expensive per shot for me. If all I did was hunt a few days if the year - I would certainly use BH. But I end up shooting 7-10 pounds if T7 each year @ $20 per pound. Now then multiply that times the same amount of BH and it only comes in 10oz jugs... Well that is not true either you can get it in 8# jugs but way more money.



Remember also that I am measuring by volume so there is bound to be some variation, but I did also notice that the 120 grain loads with the 300 grain bullet were pretty consistent.


Mike, last year I found Blackhorn 209 is also available in 5 pound containers. Midsouth Shooters has it for $196.69, which equates to $24.59 per 10 ounces. That is far better than the $34.99 Cabelas charges for 10 ounces.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000790485

Also due to the hollow tubular shape of Blackhorn 209 you get more shots per pound:

100 grain "volume" charge is 74.4 grains (by weight) of T7

100 grain "volume" charge is 70.0 grains (by weight) of Blackhorn 209

If you shoot 7 pounds of T7 per year (exclusively) that would cost you $140/year.

If you shot Blackhorn 209 exclusively you would only need 6.58 pounds for the same volume of powder which would come out to be $259/year (at the 5 lb price).

If you shoot some of both, say 5 pounds of T7 per year and 2 pounds of Blackhorn 209 (in 10 ounce containers) that could cost around $211/year.

I have gone to Blackhorn 209 exclusively. I get more consistent velocities, less mess, less clean-up for about a $100/year difference.
 
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sabotloader

sabotloader

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Mike, last year I found Blackhorn 209 is also available in 5 pound containers. Midsouth Shooters has it for $196.69, which equates to $24.59 per 10 ounces. That is far better than the $34.99 Cabelas charges for 10 ounces.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000790485

Also due to the hollow tubular shape of Blackhorn 209 you get more shots per pound:

100 grain "volume" charge is 74.4 grains (by weight) of T7

100 grain "volume" charge is 70.0 grains (by weight) of Blackhorn 209

If you shoot 7 pounds of T7 per year (exclusively) that would cost you $140/year.

If you shot Blackhorn 209 exclusively you would only need 6.58 pounds for the same volume of powder which would come out to be $259/year (at the 5 lb price).

If you shoot some of both, say 5 pounds of T7 per year and 2 pounds of Blackhorn 209 (in 10 ounce containers) that could cost around $211/year.

I have gone to Blackhorn 209 exclusively. I get more consistent velocities, less mess, less clean-up for about a $100/year difference.

I have never found that assumption to be valid.

Did you include the hazmat and shipping charges in the cost figure you provided? I have looked at that before but by the time you add the other charges it jumps up there quickly.

BH and T7 are almost a grain for grain exchange until you get to the heavier bullets. What I am trying to indicate is to get equal velocity from BH you will need to use more BH - grain for gran than T7.

This table was produced several years ago.. in it I think you can see what I mean.

45VelocityTest.jpg


There really are some benefits to shooting BH but not enough to temp for the cost...

Look at IMR 4759, same powder construction and much less expensive per pound.

Clean up for me is 3 windex patches - two Bore scrubber patches and 3-4 dry patches - bore done.

I have looked at it over and over and remain with T7 - besides the fact that I can not use BH during ML season.
 

Shrek

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The cost of BH209 isn't that much and the benefit of not having to clean every 3 to 5 shots is well worth it to me . I've shot over 50 rounds without cleaning with BH209 but never over 5 without cleaning with T7. Honestly , you could give me all the T7 I could shoot and I would still pay for BH209. The performance has been consistent with BH209 and I can't find any reason to consider T7 unless for legal compliance.
 
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sabotloader

sabotloader

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The cost of BH209 isn't that much and the benefit of not having to clean every 3 to 5 shots is well worth it to me . I've shot over 50 rounds without cleaning with BH209 but never over 5 without cleaning with T7. Honestly , you could give me all the T7 I could shoot and I would still pay for BH209. The performance has been consistent with BH209 and I can't find any reason to consider T7 unless for legal compliance.

I agree there are some real benefits to BH and I have shot a lot of it and actually still have a lot of it. But, for me, I will hang on to T7 - it all remains a cost thing! Several have suggested I just need to switch to smokeless and the powder would even be less expensive - but that doesn't appeal to me either - I am stuck!

mike
 

Umpqua Hunter

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Hi Mike....I did not include the hazmat charges, but where I live to get a descent price on powder, I will need to pay it either way. I also did not include the following:

PATCHES: 5 patches per shot to clean for T7 = $0.15/ shot or $99 to shoot 7 pound of powder.

TIME: $30/hour (minimum) @ 1 minute extra per shot to clean the bore with T7 = $330 to shoot 7 pounds of powder.

My point being the cost issue is likely a wash. I would pick what one prefers to shoot.

You have me curious your mention of IMR4759...what's the story there. Is that a weight for weight exchange with Blackhorn 209?
 
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sabotloader

sabotloader

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Hi Mike....I did not include the hazmat charges, but where I live to get a descent price on powder, I will need to pay it either way. I also did not include the following:

PATCHES: 5 patches per shot to clean for T7 = $0.15/ shot or $99 to shoot 7 pound of powder.

TIME: $30/hour (minimum) @ 1 minute extra per shot to clean the bore with T7 = $330 to shoot 7 pounds of powder.

My point being the cost issue is likely a wash. I would pick what one prefers to shoot.

You have me curios your mention of IMR4759...what's the story there. Is that a weight for weight exchange with Blackhorn 209?

Lots of people have presented the patch and cleaning scenarios... but it is a non-issue for me. Like last week I shoot 18 shots of t7 and use 3 patches while shooting, and 7 patches cleaning - patches are awful cheap. I am retired-time is cheap... And really for a lot of us think T7 is easier to clean than BH.

It really is a Ford - Chevy thing - use what ever floats the boat.

IMR 4759 is not a BH or BP sub - it is a full bore Smokeless powder and should not be use in a ML. My point was General Dynamics says making BH is more expensive than regular smokeless because of its construction - yet 4759 is the same construction and costs much less.
 

robby denning

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The dang farmer was there hooking up equipment to go do some farming. Couldn't believe he would want to farm the farm when I wanted to shoot!

Damn farmers anyway :)

Hey Sabotloader, I'm still working on getting you some Blackhorn to test.
 
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