Under Cooked Chicken

[xajoles]

This last weekend I attended a catered dinner at a club event. The menu was BBQ Chicken

and Brisket and all the fixings. The chicken looked so good. that was the first item on my plate I cut into. The more I cut the more pink and red I saw. Since it was a drop-off catered

event, I took my plate up to the person in charge of organizing the dinner and showed them

I cut the Chicken thigh. I was floored when the person in charge said the caterer put a note

on the pan of chicken that read something like " Don"t Panic," The chicken is fully cooked".

My husband had a piece of chicken breast and his piece was fully cooked.

When meat is brined? It should not look undercooked, right? I could not taste if the chicken had been brined or not. Which should not make a difference. Done is Done when it comes to cooking chicken.

I hope this is in the right forum

 

[xajoles]

This last weekend I attended a catered dinner at a club event. The menu was BBQ Chicken

and Brisket and all the fixings. The chicken looked so good. that was the first item on my plate I cut into. The more I cut the more pink and red I saw. Since it was a drop-off catered

event, I took my plate up to the person in charge of organizing the dinner and showed them

I cut the Chicken thigh. I was floored when the person in charge said the caterer put a note

on the pan of chicken that read something like " Don"t Panic," The chicken is fully cooked".

My husband had a piece of chicken breast and his piece was fully cooked.

When meat is brined? It should not look undercooked, right? I could not taste if the chicken had been brined or not. Which should not make a difference. Done is Done when it comes to cooking chicken.

I hope this is in the right forum

thanks in advance for any help

 

[journeyman713]

It’s probably fine, but if he starts to strut around like Mick Jagger, or grow feathers, call the vet immediately

 

[PredatorSlayer]

If it was smoked it will be pink. If undercooked it is usually chewy.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I had the same experience once, pork looked grossly uncooked but it wasn't. Had been properly cooked in a pressure cooker and finished on the grill. Super pink but all good. But like PS said, if it's undercooked you cannot mistake it from the texture. BTW...I'm a commercial caterer so yeah...we use tricks to ensure nobody gets sick.

 

[HuntHarder]

Probably smoked would be my bet. If I smoke mine and take it off right at 165*, the thighs look undercooked every time. I use a 200$ thermometer, so I am pretty sure my temps are spot on.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I spent 3 days in the Hospital due to undercooked chicken.
Campylobacter(sp?).
Infinitely worse than Covid.
Felt like I'd been gut shot.

 

[Jstumbaugh]

If they used any kind of brine/marinade that has vinegar in it the chicken will stay pink near the bones.

 

[eddie4u]

Best way is to boil first before roasting or frying. It tastes better too.

 

[98XJRC]

Took my wife awhile to finally agree with me that we had been overcooking chicken and every other meat for that matter. Granted almost every time still take legs off the grill she questions me. While not available at an event like you where a Thermapen has been a game changer for us at home. It's the one tool in our kitchen that gets used almost daily. We love ours so much that we've given them for gifts to both of our parents.

 

[Laramie]

Most people overcook chicken. When it is done correctly, many feel it is undercooked. Chicken breast only needs to be at 145 for 5 minutes to be safe. Bone in 160 for 5 minutes.

 

[zacattack]

Slow cooked or smoked chicken will have a pink color to it.

 

[jimh406]

Laramie, I'm not sure where you are getting 145 or 160 for 5 minutes as a proper temperature for poultry. Almost everywhere says 165.

If you are worried about overcooking, cook at slightly lower temperature to allow the sweet spot as far as time to be a bit longer. Also, most people don't let their grilled food rest. 165 is completely juicy if allowed to rest.

Thighs are supposed to cook to higher temperature. Most people recommend 175. That can be mitigated by spatchcocking the chicken. Since the thighs will be closer to the grill, the breast and thighs will be done at the same time.

As far as looking not done goes, that usually happens when the chicken is not completely thawed when it is put on the grill. It's happened to me before, too. I double checked the temperature at the bone and sure enough not done. The only difference that time is that I didn't let the frozen chicken from the supermarket have quite enough time to thaw.

Fwiw, not being done consistently happens with almost any type of meet. It's really hard to get the same temperature/safe temperature all of the way through when part/bones start at 32 or lower. For reference, proper refrigerator temperature is usually considered 38.

 

[c670809]

Laramie, I'm not sure where you are getting 145 or 160 for 5 minutes as a proper temperature for poultry. Almost everywhere says 165.

You will almost never find an authoritative source that lists less than 165 for chicken. However, in my opinion that is because they are afraid of lawsuits. The government suggests 165 for chicken and so that's what most people do.

I listen to a lot of podcasts with chefs and I believe Laramie is correct. Most chefs I listen too cook their breasts to 150 or less when they are cooking for themselves.

With that said, when it comes to dark meat I prefer the texture when it is closer to 170-180. If you do that with breasts, they will be VERY dry.

 

[Marbles]

You will almost never find an authoritative source that lists less than 165 for chicken. However, in my opinion that is because they are afraid of lawsuits. The government suggests 165 for chicken and so that's what most people do.

I listen to a lot of podcasts with chefs and I believe Laramie is correct. Most chefs I listen too cook their breasts to 150 or less when they are cooking for themselves.

With that said, when it comes to dark meat I prefer the texture when it is closer to 170-180. If you do that with breasts, they will be VERY dry.

Much of it is based on time to kill. Lower temps must be held longer to kill potential organisms. Even then, they are only potential, so someone might get away with improper cooking for years.

Time-temperature effects on Salmonellae and Staphylococci in foods. III. Thermal death time studies - PubMed

Thermal death time studies were conducted at 5 F intervals from 130 to 150 F with strains of salmonellae and enterotoxigenic staphylococci. Heat-resistant Salmonella senftenberg strain 775W, Staphylococcus aureus strains 196E and Ms149, and non-heat-resistant Salmonella manhattan were studied in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I believe the 165 recomendation is based on avian flue, not bacteria. This is probably a lower risk (not certain, not looked at data), so cooking to kill bacteria will likely produce the largest risk reduction.

 

[Tod osier]

The higher temps seen are to render dark meet non bloody, and have nothing to do with food safety. People freak out if chicken is pink or bloody. The cooking time x temp are clear for safety, but what people consider palatable is different for dark vs light meet.

 

[Laramie]

Laramie, I'm not sure where you are getting 145 or 160 for 5 minutes as a proper temperature for poultry. Almost everywhere says 165.

If you are worried about overcooking, cook at slightly lower temperature to allow the sweet spot as far as time to be a bit longer. Also, most people don't let their grilled food rest. 165 is completely juicy if allowed to rest.

Thighs are supposed to cook to higher temperature. Most people recommend 175. That can be mitigated by spatchcocking the chicken. Since the thighs will be closer to the grill, the breast and thighs will be done at the same time.

As far as looking not done goes, that usually happens when the chicken is not completely thawed when it is put on the grill. It's happened to me before, too. I double checked the temperature at the bone and sure enough not done. The only difference that time is that I didn't let the frozen chicken from the supermarket have quite enough time to thaw.

Fwiw, not being done consistently happens with almost any type of meet. It's really hard to get the same temperature/safe temperature all of the way through when part/bones start at 32 or lower. For reference, proper refrigerator temperature is usually considered 38.

I'm not sure why people can't use Google or do simple research before discounting others. It is well researched that chicken held at 145 is not only safe but tremendously better table fare.

 

[Laramie]

I'm not sure why people can't use Google or do simple research before discounting others. It is well researched that chicken held at 145 is not only safe but tremendously better table fare.

The time at 145 has been debated. Some studies have proven 5 minutes ish long enough but due to liability concerns there standard recommendation has been increased.

 

[zacattack]

I believe the 165 recomendation is based on avian flue, not bacteria. This is probably a lower risk (not certain, not looked at data), so cooking to kill bacteria will likely produce the largest risk reduction.

Not true. The 165 is to kill bacteria particularly salmonella and campylobacter, avian flu is destroyed at much lower temperatures. However, the chance of avian flu reaching someone’s kitchen on a piece of chicken is almost 0%.

Like others have said it’s a time by temperature relationship. 160 is instant death for most food borne bacteria, especially the ones present in chicken meat. The thought process on recommending 165 is that most people have no idea about food safety or cooking properly. 165 is basically the government cover your ass temperature.

 

[Marbles]

Not true. The 165 is to kill bacteria particularly salmonella and campylobacter, avian flu is destroyed at much lower temperatures. However, the chance of avian flu reaching someone’s kitchen on a piece of chicken is almost 0%.

Funny, salmonella dies at 140 with an adequate hold, as stated in the study I linked earlier in the post you quoted. Campylobacter is less resistant to heat shock than salmonella. Also, 145 is recommended to kill salmonella in beaf. So, yeah, salmonella must be the reason for recommending 165 in chicken.

Like others have said it’s a time by temperature relationship.

You mean as I stated in the post you quoted.

160 is instant death for most food borne bacteria, especially the ones present in chicken meat. The thought process on recommending 165 is that most people have no idea about food safety or cooking properly. 165 is basically the government cover your ass temperature.

Instant death? Strong words. Most food born bacteria is harmless by the way. Though, that temp is effective on the specific bacteria of concern. As a side, sterilization does not happen until 230 to 255 F held for 30 to 3 minutes respectively.

Anyway, as you are the expert, how about giving the temp that actually inactivates avian flue? As I indicated in my original post, I did not know and was guessing. Bassed on the sloppy wording of your reply and joy in repeating what I stated as a reply to me, you also have not and are simply shooting blind while making definitive statements.

As a side, I gave about 20 minutes to trying to find the inactivation temperature from a primary source or reliable source, it was not easy to find and I don't really care enough to put more work into it.