USA Made

[HaydenLane]

Serious question: are any of the American made options actually superior? The price of foreign made hunting clothing is already absurdly high. Is there any benefit to the end user to buy a forloh piece over a sitka piece (unless you love their awful camo)? Or even comparing Sitka to Sitka Arrowhead, or Arc’teryx to their Leaf line, etc.

I’ve spent a lot of money on small American made goods in my life, and some larger things like footwear, workwear and packs. For the most part, I’ve found no higher quality in my American made goods. Why is this? Are there real options actually worth spending 2-3x?

 

[mtwarden]

Serious question: are any of the American made options actually superior? The price of foreign made hunting clothing is already absurdly high. Is there any benefit to the end user to buy a forloh piece over a sitka piece (unless you love their awful camo)? Or even comparing Sitka to Sitka Arrowhead, or Arc’teryx to their Leaf line, etc.

I’ve spent a lot of money on small American made goods in my life, and some larger things like footwear, workwear and packs. For the most part, I’ve found no higher quality in my American made goods. Why is this? Are there real options actually worth spending 2-3x?

Clothing is definitely the hardest one to get USA made.

I would say yes with a few of the small cottage shops; thinking specifically of Nunatak and Enlightened Equipment- their Apex insulated stuff is top shelf.

Sitka to Sitka arrowhead and Arcteryx to their LEAF line- no direct benefit to the consumer (other than where it's made)

 

[HaydenLane]

Clothing is definitely the hardest one to get USA made.

I would say yes with a few of the small cottage shops; thinking specifically of Nunatak and Enlightened Equipment- their Apex insulated stuff is top shelf.

Sitka to Sitka arrowhead and Arcteryx to their LEAF line- no direct benefit to the consumer (other than where it's made)

Thanks. Custom made options are certainly a benefit. I also probably would’ve went arrowhead for sitka apex just for the solid color. I guess I hadn’t considered those examples in my initial statement.

Other than that, it sounds like your experience has been similar to what I’ve found in other types of clothing and most gear.

 

[JMatt]

Serious question: are any of the American made options actually superior? The price of foreign made hunting clothing is already absurdly high. Is there any benefit to the end user to buy a forloh piece over a sitka piece (unless you love their awful camo)? Or even comparing Sitka to Sitka Arrowhead, or Arc’teryx to their Leaf line, etc.

I’ve spent a lot of money on small American made goods in my life, and some larger things like footwear, workwear and packs. For the most part, I’ve found no higher quality in my American made goods. Why is this? Are there real options actually worth spending 2-3x?

That’s a tough question and it depends on the product/company. Some of the Filson stuff I bought more than twenty years ago is still like new. On the other hand, I’ve had good reason to be disappointed in every pair of Russell Moccasin boots I have owned. Sometimes the idea of a thing is way better than the reality of it.

 

[bsnedeker]

Serious question: are any of the American made options actually superior? The price of foreign made hunting clothing is already absurdly high. Is there any benefit to the end user to buy a forloh piece over a sitka piece (unless you love their awful camo)? Or even comparing Sitka to Sitka Arrowhead, or Arc’teryx to their Leaf line, etc.

I’ve spent a lot of money on small American made goods in my life, and some larger things like footwear, workwear and packs. For the most part, I’ve found no higher quality in my American made goods. Why is this? Are there real options actually worth spending 2-3x?

First, yeah, in my experience American made goods are higher quality and last longer.

Second, let's say they are of equal quality. My money is staying in this country helping to pay the wages of American workers. That alone is easily worth the additional cost.

Last, the cost is not 2 to 3 times more than Chinese gear. In most cases we are talking 30 to 50% more unless you are buying from a company that is only making custom gear one piece at a time. Forloh and Kifaru don't charge 2 to 3 times more than Exo and Kyrptek.

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[Cameron.25]

Serious question: are any of the American made options actually superior? The price of foreign made hunting clothing is already absurdly high. Is there any benefit to the end user to buy a forloh piece over a sitka piece (unless you love their awful camo)? Or even comparing Sitka to Sitka Arrowhead, or Arc’teryx to their Leaf line, etc.

I’ve spent a lot of money on small American made goods in my life, and some larger things like footwear, workwear and packs. For the most part, I’ve found no higher quality in my American made goods. Why is this? Are there real options actually worth spending 2-3x?

Personally, i feel the quality control and performance of my forloh and seek outside american sourced and made pieces are 100% superior to the first lite, kuiu, and sitka ive owned, hands down. And barely more money if at all comparing piece to piece when talking clothing at least. Its not just about that tho, even if they were the same exact quality id be happy to pay a bit more for American made either way. The packs arent even worth comparing, i only still have my kuiu to use as a loaner for friends. One of my kuiu bags had an entire damn zipper completely stitched over! Wtf is that? Those three asian made compies i mention are ripping people off in my opinion. Like a guy just said above, he didnt even know first lite and sitka werent made here. You have to look into it to find out. The influencers conveniently never mention it if a product they're pushing is made in china, but always tout certain products are american made IF they happen to be sponsored by a company making products here. Nobody is ever proud they make shit overseas or putting chinese flags on their gear. Id love to see an unedited video tour of all these communist factories and a breakdown of their "employees" wages

 

[Seeknelk]

I'd be interested in a quality report after you've tried your Timmermade clothing.

Ok! Yeah I'll try to put one up after I get it and use a while. 12 weeks out or something like that.

 

[dvstrl]

^ alpha direct w/ a windshirt would make for a nice on the move combo

Absolutely- Outdoor Research's now-discontinued Ascendant Hoody is pretty much 90g/sm alpha direct sewed into a high cfm windshirt. It's great, but if I could do it over again I'd be looking at a combo of Timmermade's alpha hoody and windshirt. USA made, lighter, more versatile, but still warm when stopped and breathable when moving.

Seeknelk, which fabric did you order?

 

[mtwarden]

^ my wife has an Ascendent that sees a lot of wear- she loves it

I do find it somewhat odd when a company hits a home run with a garment, only to ditch a season or two later- I guess just because it's a home run doesn't mean it's making them money

 

[sneaky]

First, yeah, in my experience American made goods are higher quality and last longer.

Second, let's say they are of equal quality. My money is staying in this country helping to pay the wages of American workers. That alone is easily worth the additional cost.

Last, the cost is not 2 to 3 times more than Chinese gear. In most cases we are talking 30 to 50% more unless you are buying from a company that is only making custom gear one piece at a time. Forloh and Kifaru don't charge 2 to 3 times more than Exo and Kyrptek.

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EXO is made in the USA as well, that's a poor comparison. I think the only thing that isn't Berry compliant on them is zipper pulls. Much better analogies to be made.... like Badlands or Mystery Ranch

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[bsnedeker]

EXO is made in the USA as well, that's a poor comparison. I think the only thing that isn't Berry compliant on them is zipper pulls. Much better analogies to be made.... like Badlands or Mystery Ranch

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When I talked to them a couple of years ago they told me that they get quite a bit of their material from overseas. They wouldn't/couldn't tell me exactly what was US sourced because it changed from time to time. They did say they try to get as much stuff in the USA as possible, but wouldn't tell me what percentage was from the US. Maybe that has changed.

Either way, the point still stands that the cost is not 2 or 3 times the cost of Mystery Ranch for a comparable pack to a Kifaru....Badlands are not even in the conversation in my opinion.

 

[92xj]

I am not up to snuff on Berry compliant stuff, but with Sitka Arrowhead being produced in El Salvador, I'll pass for now.
I was getting ready to order their fleece hoody, but back to google for that.
Duckworth has one I am considering, but out of stock at the moment.

And still looking for that USA made gaiter.
The only two options I have found are Outdoor Research USA which appears to not be producing currently and the second being T&K. Hoping to find something by mid summer.

If only Kifaru or marsupial gear would make one....

 

[bsnedeker]

I am not up to snuff on Berry compliant stuff, but with Sitka Arrowhead being produced in El Salvador, I'll pass for now.
I was getting ready to order their fleece hoody, but back to google for that.
Duckworth has one I am considering, but out of stock at the moment.

And still looking for that USA made gaiter.
The only two options I have found are Outdoor Research USA which appears to not be producing currently and the second being T&K. Hoping to find something by mid summer.

If only Kifaru or marsupial gear would make one....

@RGMissoula Any plans for a gaiter from Forloh in the near future?

Not sure if he is still on the Forum but if so he could tell us if they have plans. I've been very impressed with the rain pants so I'm confident they could make a high quality gaiter too.

 

[HaydenLane]

Either way, the point still stands that the cost is not 2 or 3 times the cost of Mystery Ranch for a comparable pack to a Kifaru....Badlands are not even in the conversation in my opinion.

Maybe not MSRP to MSRP, but in actual price, it absolutely can be 2-3x. Only a fool pays retail for Sitka, MR, Kuiu, etc. I am happy to hear that forloh stuff is actually higher quality, though.

Regardless, comparing an American made/sourced pack to an American made/not sourced was definitely a poor way to make your point. My MR pack was $230 on Camofire, my SG (American made/not sourced) was about $700.

Hunting companies absolutely are a rip off for their Asian and South American made goods compared to other products out there (hence the constant recommendations to buy from non-hunting companies). If you look at American made workwear, it’s almost all 2-3x the cost of comparable carhatt products. I’ve yet to find any making products that last significantly longer. I just can’t justify wrecking $150 pants in 2 years when my $45 pants make it just as long. Hopefully this will change, I’m just not going to be a Guinea pig anymore.

 

[bsnedeker]

Maybe not MSRP to MSRP, but in actual price, it absolutely can be 2-3x. Only a fool pays retail for Sitka, MR, Kuiu, etc. I am happy to hear that forloh stuff is actually higher quality, though.

Regardless, comparing an American made/sourced pack to an American made/not sourced was definitely a poor way to make your point. My MR pack was $230 on Camofire, my SG (American made/not sourced) was about $700.

Hunting companies absolutely are a rip off for their Asian and South American made goods compared to other products out there (hence the constant recommendations to buy from non-hunting companies). If you look at American made workwear, it’s almost all 2-3x the cost of comparable carhatt products. I’ve yet to find any making products that last significantly longer. I just can’t justify wrecking $150 pants in 2 years when my $45 pants make it just as long. Hopefully this will change, I’m just not going to be a Guinea pig anymore.

Lol...so the TRUE way to compare is to find the cheapest sale you can find and then compare the price to the MSRP of the American company huh? Ridiculous.

I bought my Kifaru frame, and bag 100% made and sourced in the USA for 600 bucks shipped. That is for a 7000 cubic inch pack. The MR Beartooth 80 (which is much smaller) is currently selling on Optics planet for.....$550 dollars! Wow, yeah, what a huge price difference! Better buy chinese to save all that money!

Of course you can buy cheaper chinese stuff, and of course you can spend WAY more on American made stuff. If you want to buy anything even remotely comparable to a Kifaru, however, you are going to be spending some money whether it's made in China or not.

 

[92xj]

@RGMissoula Any plans for a gaiter from Forloh in the near future?

Not sure if he is still on the Forum but if so he could tell us if they have plans. I've been very impressed with the rain pants so I'm confident they could make a high quality gaiter too.

Hopefully he shows up and has plans, that would be great.

So far, I am very satisfied with my forloh purchases. Though, one tiny little thing that irks me is some of their wording on features of clothing. Not enough to affect my decision on purchasing, but to say a hood has three way adjustable and when asked what the third way is, they respond with "the hood being up or down" as the third adjustment, just made me shake my head. Anyhow, hopefully they have some gaiters in the works, I would love to test them out elk and moose hunting this year.

 

[HaydenLane]

Lol...so the TRUE way to compare is to find the cheapest sale you can find and then compare the price to the MSRP of the American company huh? Ridiculous.

I bought my Kifaru frame, and bag 100% made and sourced in the USA for 600 bucks shipped. That is for a 7000 cubic inch pack. The MR Beartooth 80 (which is much smaller) is currently selling on Optics planet for.....$550 dollars! Wow, yeah, what a huge price difference! Better buy chinese to save all that money!

Of course you can buy cheaper chinese stuff, and of course you can spend WAY more on American made stuff. If you want to buy anything even remotely comparable to a Kifaru, however, you are going to be spending some money whether it's made in China or not.

My MR pack was made in the Philippines. In fact, very little of my Kuiu/Sitka/FL clothing has a made in China tag.

That’s interesting, considering a Kifaru frame is $368 and their bags are almost all over $300. I’m comparing real world, everyday prices. If you want to pay retail, go right ahead. In the real world, you can basically find whatever MR pack you want for 30% off any given week(or any dat if you’re mil/leo). If you’re military, you can get 10% off at kifaru. That’s a big difference to the bottom line. I’m not going to claim it’s as good as a kifaru, but I got a pack that fit my needs for ~35% of the money.

 

[Mark at EXO]

When I talked to them a couple of years ago they told me that they get quite a bit of their material from overseas. They wouldn't/couldn't tell me exactly what was US sourced because it changed from time to time. They did say they try to get as much stuff in the USA as possible, but wouldn't tell me what percentage was from the US. Maybe that has changed.

Just happened to see this thread because I am always looking for made in the USA gear and clothing...

To clarify, a very small percentage of our current materials come from overseas, and we do build fully Berry Compliant packs for MIL.

 

[bsnedeker]

Just happened to see this thread because I am always looking for made in the USA gear and clothing...

To clarify, a very small percentage of our current materials come from overseas, and we do build fully Berry Compliant packs for MIL.

Great to hear! Any thoughts about selling the 100% USA stuff to the public? I've tried on your packs and I honestly love the way they fit and ride, but the at the end of the day if I can buy something 100% USA sourced and made I'm going to do that. It may seem like a small thing, but small things add up.

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[Fins_N_Tines]

my question is why isn't Forloh getting more love. Ive been to their flagship store and bought a pair of their pants and belt. Extremely high quality and screams high end technical gear. In general they are on the higher end of weight but pretty close to Sitka in weight and fit. I've heard some say they were turned off by 650 fill down garments, but at this time they can only get 650 duck down in bulk in the US. I've actually played with a bag of the duck down in their store and it much more down plumes then I expected.