UT game management plan change

YZF_88

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Are you guys really surprised to see this from Utah? They can't leave a plan in place long enough to get data and refuse to get accurate harvest reporting. Hell they might as well use ballot counters from PA or WI to count elk and deer. How about those rifle tags during the rut or the sham RFP process they screwed RMEF with?
 

realunlucky

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Unfortunately I just heard from my friend in the division and he says "there is no talk of walking back the recommendation" at this time, even with all the outrage that they have received. With the RAC meetings being online only, the input from the public is via the online feedback. This is a massive disappointment. I feel like the division is using the online RAC meetings to avoid public outcry and pushing this through because they can do it without real pushback.
Exactly this. Only SFW gets a secret board meeting everyone else gets to pound sand and watch the results on YouTube.
Took SFW two years to finally figure a way to steal Barney top and no public attendance means no live rebuttal of thier BS so half the boulders is gone, gone, gone.
 
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I talked to a friend in the division too and he said "we are absolutely getting our balls kicked in." But no plan to change.
 

CorbLand

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Submitted my comments.

Support the LE archery hunts and the hams hunts but do not support the unlimited tags for any bull. I added that I would support unlimited tags for hunters under 18 but not for everyone. However, I dont think the unlimited tags will be death to all elk on general units. I honestly doubt the overall success rate would really increase that much.

Utah needs to stop killing elk at their most vulnerable time with our most effective weapons and stop turning every ******* LE unit into a premium unit.

What would you alls feelings be on turning the general units into pseudo LE tag? Allow for lots of tags, requires limited entry points, reduced waiting period. Say issue 1000 tags per unit and only a 2 year waiting period. Would allow those that want to hunt the ability to more often and decrease the point pool for the more limited entry units. Could call them non premium limited entry or something.

Cant say I am in love with my idea above but the only way to increase opportunity in Utah is to push people through the point system faster.
 
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realunlucky

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Submitted my comments.

Support the LE archery hunts and the hams hunts but do not support the unlimited tags for any bull. I added that I would support unlimited tags for hunters under 18 but not for everyone. However, I dont think the unlimited tags will be death to all elk on general units. I honestly doubt the overall success rate would really increase that much.

Utah needs to stop killing elk at their most vulnerable time with our most effective weapons and stop turning every ******* LE unit into a premium unit.

What would you alls feelings be on turning the general units into pseudo LE tag? Allow for lots of tags, requires limited entry points, reduced waiting period. Say issue 1000 tags per unit and only a 2 year waiting period. Would allow those that want to hunt the ability to more often and decrease the point pool for the more limited entry units. Could call them non premium limited entry or something.

Cant say I am in love with my idea above but the only way to increase opportunity in Utah is to push people through the point system faster.
More tags is more opportunity so.... (I don't support the new unlimited proposal either)
Unlimited general tags is the first step to cutting spike unit tags which is something SFW dreams about.

Not in favor of any new ideas about new Limited entry units or new hunts that require LE points.

Not in favor of any plan that SFW throws out be it archery or HAMS because in the end they only support proposal that benefit themselves first and often.







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I added that I would support unlimited tags for hunters under 18 but not for everyone.


What would you alls feelings be on turning the general units into pseudo LE tag? Allow for lots of tags, requires limited entry points, reduced waiting period. Say issue 1000 tags per unit and only a 2 year waiting period. Would allow those that want to hunt the ability to more often and decrease the point pool for the more limited entry units. Could call them non premium limited entry or something.

I like the under 18 idea.

I kind of like the second. But, point systems really scare me, especially in Utah's case due to the terrible point creep of the LE units. I LOVE the freedom of being able to hunt the same spot year after year and get to know it like a best friend. I would rather see them institute a mandatory harvest report for the general seasons, and put tag quotas on each sub unit... So break up the N slope and S slope and other large areas into smaller units, and manage tag numbers based on harvest data. But, keep the tags OTC. Maybe they would be able to increase tag numbers and avoid excessive crowding.
 
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I've only been in Utah for about 5 years, so the issues with SFW being involved is somewhat perplexing to me. Why are they able to dictate so much of how DWR manages the wildlife?
 

Northpark

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I voiced my opinion.

How long has CO had their OTC system? Reason I ask is I looked at elk population numbers and harvest numbers the last 5-7 years. Population has gone up (slightly) so let's call that steady at around 280k-290k animals. Harvest has also remained fairly steady at around 37k-43k killed. Individual herd are probably a better metric, but could an argument be made that the OTC system in CO hurts hunting more than it hurts the elk populations? I don't know, I'm playing devil's advocate trying to figure this out.
On this you are likely correct. At least in Colorado. The otc units generally have a very low success rate. A friend of mine who works for CPW told me that the herd numbers are still rising in many of the
otc units resulting in being able to justify otc tags. they would actually kill more elk by reducing tag #s reducing crowding and upping success rates but that’s not what it’s about. It’s about allowing otc tags to NR hunters as a cash cow.
 
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In most areas of Colorado, the animals have a safe place to go once the hunters invade: private land. Even in southwest CO where the herd is down, we were seeing very few elk on public but wives driving to town were having them run across the road in front of them when driving thru private
 

CorbLand

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More tags is more opportunity so.... (I don't support the new unlimited proposal either)
Unlimited general tags is the first step to cutting spike unit tags which is something SFW dreams about.

Not in favor of any new ideas about new Limited entry units or new hunts that require LE points.

Not in favor of any plan that SFW throws out be it archery or HAMS because in the end they only support proposal that benefit themselves first and often.







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Like I said, I don't love my idea either but it might help get people out of the limited entry pool for the bigger units. I am frustrated because they cut tags on the unit closest to me this year because they want to turn it into a premium unit. I was within a couple years of drawing and bam that's gone. That north cache archery hunt is very tempting but I almost have too many points to justify dumping them on it.
 
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Has anyone ever seen the number of archery any bull tags they sell?

I'm not a fan of unlimited rifle tags but also not a fan of being without a tag.

When Covy talks about this replacing the old deer camps I don't think he understands the almost 250k deer tags were sold back then and the deer population was 400-500k. Currently the elk pop is sub 100k. -maybe math wasn't required for his degree.
 
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UtahJimmy

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Summary from the central region elk discussion:

20k permits, unlimited youth - passed 7-2
Extend general season any bull archery by 9 days. Will overlap youth hunt so orange is required - passed unanimously
Remove multiseason tags - failed to go to vote

I like the youth suggestion, it takes care of the heritage and opportunity reasonings. Still think they should keep the cap at 15k and remove multiseason.

And just to be clear, I have bought a multiseason for all 3 years it's been offered. But I think it's not doing us any good for the overcrowding issue.

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CorbLand

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I like the 15000 to 20000 for now with the option to relook at this when the elk management plan is revised in a couple years. After listening to Covy, I am more ok with unlimited tags but they are going to have to get rid of the multi season. Make it unlimited for each hunt but you have to choose what weapon and make it branch antler only.
 

realunlucky

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I like the 15000 to 20000 for now with the option to relook at this when the elk management plan is revised in a couple years. After listening to Covy, I am more ok with unlimited tags but they are going to have to get rid of the multi season. Make it unlimited for each hunt but you have to choose what weapon and make it branch antler only.
Why are you continuingly trying to reduce opportunity on this hunt. General season elk is one of the very few hunts designed solely to provide hunter opportunity.

You want quality cash in some points.

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It was just a matter of time. The deer hunting in Utah has been terrible for a couple of decades now, so they were bound to ruin the elk hunt eventually.
 
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