Vane length/count and ballistic drag

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The comparison table that @Mighty Mouse posted showing a 5-8FPS loss at 80 yds is interesting...based on the comments, I was expecting it to be much worse.

One thing I wonder about with in the field results is bow tune. Larger vanes are going to slow the arrow down, but once it's spinning not as bad.


Take a poorly tuned bow and a bunch of vane on the back, it will suck the energy out shortly after launch correcting.
 

bpctcb

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Interesting numbers about speed & drag down range in this video.


BP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Brendan

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I'm not going to watch the Ranch Fairy video because he's usually an annoying side show. But, any extra drag will slow down any arrow more, helical included. The effect will be less on a heavier arrow as compared to a lighter arrow because of the extra momentum of the arrow the vanes need to act against. Same reason you will see fixed blades and field points "Hit the same" on a heavier arrow out to longer ranges than a light arrow.

And - Another Bill V / Iron Will testing nugget. I think he saw a 2 foot drop at 100 yards comparing a 3 fletch to a 4 fletch. He talked about it on a recent Rokcast podcast with Jordan.

Speed difference isn't really what matters, it's pin gaps, and how critical ranging becomes at longer ranges if you want to hit what you're shooting at.
 
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I know on my target bow a 30 (299 vs 330 gr.) grain heavier arrow hits same impact group as my regular arrows, I'm sure much further you will start to see it, but that's an arrow starting out 8 fps slower anyways.
 

5MilesBack

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Just like everything else with archery, the details matter. 2" vanes.......what height, how stiff is the material, straight......offset.......or helical? Same for 3".....4".....etc. A lot of 3" vanes in a 3-fletch are going to provide just as much if not more drag than three 2" high profile vanes. You add a fourth vane to that setup and you're really going to see some drag......which apparently you did.

Personally, I would NEVER use the high profile type 2" vanes in a 4-fletch. Nor would I use regular 3" and 4" in a 4-fletch. But when using low profile 2" type vanes or sub 3", then absolutely it "might" make sense to use a 4-fletch over the 3-fletch.......but not necessarily. I've used the low profile 2.1" Q2i Fusion Xii vanes in a 3-fletch with mechanical BH's and they've worked just fine, even long range. But I also shoot fixed blade heads so when I use those vanes I use a 4-fletch, which works very well for both heads. And the drag is pretty close to the same as my 3-fletch straight 2" Quickspin vanes, as they both impact very close together even at 80 yards.
 

Zac

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I shoot 4 fletch Rapt X, Blazers, and TAC Summits. At first I did it just for weight because I was out of wraps. Kyle Douglas also shoots 4 Rapt X on both his hunting setup, and most of his target arrows. I shot Tac out to 100 yards without any issue with the number 15 Spot Hogg tape. If I had to guess the offset I'd say it's probably 2 degrees.
 

N2TRKYS

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I’ve never had a reason to shoot a 4 fletch, so I don’t know how much it would affect the velocity.
 

Zac

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I’ve never had a reason to shoot a 4 fletch, so I don’t know how much it would affect the velocity.
Hardly at all. As mentioned previously in this thread, 3 degrees on a 4 fletch was averaging about 5 fps difference at 80 vs a 3 fletch. I believe what Bill was referring to was a weight difference. 3 Max hunters is 21 grains vs 4 Stealth is around 32-36.
 
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I shoot 4 fletch Rapt X, Blazers, and TAC Summits. At first I did it just for weight because I was out of wraps. Kyle Douglas also shoots 4 Rapt X on both his hunting setup, and most of his target arrows. I shot Tac out to 100 yards without any issue with the number 15 Spot Hogg tape. If I had to guess the offset I'd say it's probably 2 degrees.
Straight offset on the RaptX or helical? Planning on doing the same with the RIP TKOs I got coming today.
 

N2TRKYS

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Hardly at all. As mentioned previously in this thread, 3 degrees on a 4 fletch was averaging about 5 fps difference at 80 vs a 3 fletch. I believe what Bill was referring to was a weight difference. 3 Max hunters is 21 grains vs 4 Stealth is around 32-36.

It didn’t seem like it should be a whole lot. Seems like most anything else, that it’s different for each bow. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I got talked into trying the Rapt-x over my Blazers. I didn’t like them much at all and went back to the Blazers.
 
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With fixed blades I thought broadhead accuracy was poorer with 3 @ 3” @ 2* helical Trophy Taker Silent Hunter vanes than with 3 ea 2” regular Blazers @ 2* helical. Finally took them off the shafts as they didn’t shoot as well this year or in previous years testing. Wanted to like them but did not. They were quieter though. (Less drag). Most noticeable at longer range. Never hunted with them.
 
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I believe what Bill was referring to was a weight difference. 3 Max hunters is 21 grains vs 4 Stealth is around 32-36.
I was wondering the same thing...how much of the 3-vs-4 fletch trajectory/speed difference can be attributed to the extra weight vs the extra drag? 11-15 gr doesn't seem like much, but at very long ranges it might have a significant effect on drop.
 

TX_Diver

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I'm playing with this a bit right now (for next year) based on Bill V's notes that there is an ~2' delta in POI at 100 yards between 3 max hunter and 4 max stealth.

With field points I'm hitting the same out to 60 with both configurations. Haven't put broadheads on yet, but if the difference is within my normal group size at 60 then I think I'd rather have the additional stabilization.

This was Saturday at 60. w/ the 4 fletch I'm shooting 263 fps. Not sure on the speed w/ a 3 fletch. ~530gr arrow.

Efx6yhhh.jpg
 
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I switch vanes more than anyone I know lol. It’s a problem. Last year I ran 3 blazer type vanes in a 3 degree helical. They shoot good and control BHs.
Lately I’ve been testing 4 fletch blazers. I too have said 4 fletch blazers is way overkill! However here I am testing it. I fletched them with about 1 degree offset. At longer yardages they seem to hit same with the 3 fletch. The 4 fletch seem to be more forgiving.
Here was amazing tightgroup i shot at 115. The one arrow flys low everytime. I need to weigh it or check it because it consistently shoots low. But the point of the pic is that the 4 fletch groups same with the 3 even at 115 yards. Obviously the 3 fletch shoot great. And if I do my part they do but if I don’t it seems the added vane of the 4 fletch is more forgiving
 

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4fletch

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I recently switched to 4 vane arrows and have noticed a speed decrease but not necessarily an accuracy/flight improvement.

Is there any merit to more and longer vanes increasing drag etc? I mean I'm sure it has an effect but is it enough to be concerned with?
Out to 40 yards with the same vanes 4 fletch 3 degree RH vs 3 fletch 2.5 RH with arrows of the same weight, or even the same weight the difference in point of impact is nada. Unless a guy can shoot Robin Hoods one after the other he is not going to be able to tell the difference accuracy wise anyway.
Now if you use a stiffer smoother vane of the same shape and configuration I have noticed a higher poi at 30 and out. Perhaps even closer.
The big difference in my testing has been low and long. Low long vanes seem to create a lot of extra current and drag. Turbulence around the shaft. 4 2.88 Vanetech shields is like a parachute. And they in my experience help a lot with accuracy. I have some Gold tip arrows i use for smaller game and target set up for shorter range i shoot with 4 fletch 2.5 RH setup. I have some of the same arrows with a three fletch bully vane 2.5RH and you can tell quite clearly there is a difference at 40 yards in velocity.
Personally i roll with 4 fletch blazers at a 3 degree RH for everything now. They fly well, even in the wind and rain. The loss in velocity is minimal compared to low and long turbulence and the longer lever arm of the blazer does its job controlling the arrow, giving it a spin. Im slowly working out the old vanes and using Bully as i build new arrows.
 

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I switch vanes more than anyone I know lol. It’s a problem. Last year I ran 3 blazer type vanes in a 3 degree helical. They shoot good and control BHs.
Lately I’ve been testing 4 fletch blazers. I too have said 4 fletch blazers is way overkill! However here I am testing it. I fletched them with about 1 degree offset. At longer yardages they seem to hit same with the 3 fletch. The 4 fletch seem to be more forgiving.
Here was amazing tightgroup i shot at 115. The one arrow flys low everytime. I need to weigh it or check it because it consistently shoots low. But the point of the pic is that the 4 fletch groups same with the 3 even at 115 yards. Obviously the 3 fletch shoot great. And if I do my part they do but if I don’t it seems the added vane of the 4 fletch is more forgiving
3 from 80 with the rapt-x 4 fletch straight offset. Maybe a bit steeper pitch than yours, might back it off a little. Did fletch up a few with a 3 fletch helical to compare. 4 fletch shoots great though.
 

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