Versatile hunting dog?

IdahoElk

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And from what I've seen the SM's haven't been amazing. Run around alot for sure. But I think it's a case of who's breeding good dogs from around where you are. Around you must be some good SM's. And if you want to see a dog run a bit bigger a SM is more for you than a griff. Perspnal preference. And I'll add I don't think a griff is a dog for the OP.

All the griff's I saw tested got prize 1 NA and watched some practice for UT and looked awesome. But only 1 had a coat I would look for. The UT dog. And that's why I say consistent breeds would be DD, DK and PP. But I think with the popularity of PP's that's shifting a little. I saw two run last year and they looked completely different, not just in color but coat. The one was more undercoat then wire coat.
I've had two SM's and they have been great pointer/retrievers, not sure who bred the dogs you're talking about?
Having hunted with almost all the dogs mentioned in this thread and have seen great dogs and some real ding dongs, The difference seems to be getting dogs from a reputable breeder.
 

2ski

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There are alot of breeders out there working toward coat conformity, regardless of breed. However it's almost always last fiddle to ability and drive. You might not like how it looks, but it generally won't affect how they perform. I personally wanted a tight coat and I sought out parents that would maximize my odds of this. So I'm not calling anyone out for considering coats in their decision. But they aren't show dogs, breeding for coat and looks is how many a good dogs were ruined by the AKC and others...

Just a friendly disclaimer for those searching
I agree with you about coats and the akc. Tight coats wouldn't win in the akc. For sure drive and hunt are the most important. But if a breeder is doing it 100% right, he's trying for a tight harsh coat as well as hunting ability.
 

2ski

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I've had two SM's and they have been great pointer/retrievers, not sure who bred the dogs you're talking about?
Having hunted with almost all the dogs mentioned in this thread and have seen great dogs and some real ding dongs, The difference seems to be getting dogs from a reputable breeder.
I'm not criticizing your dogs. Just saying what I saw. You're welcome to say you've seen some not so great griffs. You won't hurt my feelings. I spent close to 5 hours on the phone and spent quite a but typing emails as well to find my dogs breeder.
 

LOC4L

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I too was a lab guy, but I have switched to the American Brittany. This dog can do it all, loves to swim, great for upland birds, not sure about blood trailing. He's even surprisingly gentle with my kid.

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Good luck in whatever you choose!
 

Alberta Jonny

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Most of my Setters and Pointers retrieve just as good if not better then my 2 WPG's. I only have one that doesn't retrieve, but he still locates and stands the bird till I get there. There is a lot of Pointing lines that naturally do it and it just needs to be refined. Granted that's upland birds, don't think any of them would lower themselves to putting a Duck or Honker in their mouth!
 

samc

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My advice would be to search out a local navdha chapter and find a breeder through the club. Also, make sure to do your homework on the breeder and ask what they have been selecting/breeding for specifically. What would the breeders ideal dog look like? For example, I have a griff and I had to look long and hard for a breeder that was selecting for a tight hunting coat. A lot of people around are breeding the fluffy show dog griffs that would be an absolute nightmare in the field.
 

cuttiebrownbow

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I too was a lab guy, but I have switched to the American Brittany. This dog can do it all, loves to swim, great for upland birds, not sure about blood trailing. He's even surprisingly gentle with my kid.

View attachment 387292

Good luck in whatever you choose!

I don’t get to see too many brittanys but the few I see are absolute beasts in the field. Only issue is the ones I was most impressed with had zero cooperation in the field.

They can cover a lot of field, great pacing and zero quit. Last really nice pup I saw got tackled off the field


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

2ski

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My advice would be to search out a local navdha chapter and find a breeder through the club. Also, make sure to do your homework on the breeder and ask what they have been selecting/breeding for specifically. What would the breeders ideal dog look like? For example, I have a griff and I had to look long and hard for a breeder that was selecting for a tight hunting coat. A lot of people around are breeding the fluffy show dog griffs that would be an absolute nightmare in the field.
Agreed. Lots of fluffy dogs. Makes me all the more happy with what I ended up with.

Where is yours out of? You can PM me if you'd rather.
 

johnnycake

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As a reformed lab guy, I am hooked on pudelpointers from here on out. Yes, the coat quality and consistency is a serious weakness in the breed -- but with the right research and breeder, you shouldn't worry about it. I've got young kids, a fluffy throw pillow dog, and my 5yr old PP from Cedarwood's is a wonderful family dog. She is off the charts smart, and can learn whatever we put our minds to and figure out. Her off switch from day 1 has been incredible. But she's got drive for days in the field and the water. For a 42-45lbs dog, her +25' water entry will drop the jaws of even the most die hard lab guy. And last fall when I had her blood track a brown bear while I was completely unarmed (longish story), we didn't hesitate and she got the job done. Huge distance retrieves on geese, Brant and ducks in salt water, freshwater, across tundra, you name it. Ptarmigan in the mountains in February at -20F? Yep. Mountain goats in Alaska in November? Yep. She'll hunt and retrieve until she collapses and dies if I am not careful, but then she'll be queen couch potato as soon as we get in the truck, trailer, tent, or house.

I'll be the first to admit I'm biased, but I think my experience with her lends some justification to my bias. It didn't happen by accident, and we've put a lot of work into getting where we are. But I'd be lying if I said it hasn't been a total hoot developing together as her handler.
20220129_130917.jpg FB_IMG_1652686549393.jpg 20211010_180925.jpg FB_IMG_1631513204520.jpg 20211007_110117.jpg 20211009_190658.jpg She's in this last pic, at about 250 yards on point uphill of me (ain't that always the case though...) She held that for the ten minutes it took my portly self to snowshoe up there and get the bird. 20220313_121407.jpg
 

arock

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I have a GWP. He is a monster in the field and he does have a lot of prey drive. Wants to murder anything with feathers or fur. He's great to work with - I could give him to anyone to hunt and he'd happily do so. Strong runner, excellent nose, very steady for his first year though we'll need to do some sessions before the season starts to get him dialed in, pretty solid retrieve esp since we haven't had him on a table yet.

He's outstanding in the house and mostly good in crowds (covid puppy so some of that is still overwhelming).

If I were to do it again I'd probably go the DD route though I couldn't really ask for a better dog. His mom is from a dhrat program and he definitely favors her in coat and build.

I'd love another DD or GWP but the boss says we need to get something different so it'll probably be a Bracco and then maybe adding some kinda flusher into the mix to work with the pointers.

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johnnycake

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I'd love another DD or GWP but the boss says we need to get something different so it'll probably be a Bracco and then maybe adding some kinda flusher into the mix to work with the pointers.
The dirty secret I hide at NAVHDA events is how I have Ava trained to flush on command. She holds the point nice and steady, and if I choose to flush the bird she stays steady to flush, wing, shot, and fall. But if I give her the "Get'em up!" she starts kangaroo hopping in where she thinks the bird is and lands on all fours at "whoa" when the bird flushes. Not all versatile dogs can pull it off, but I think more of them can than ever get trained to try.
 

JGood

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Pick the dog breed you find the best looking and then do some research to find a good breeder who breeds for high retrieving drive. You will probably end up with something you love. Pretty much any well bred dog will do what you ask it to do with the propper training. DONT get caught up in the hype of a particular breed that claims to be the BEST versitile hunting breed.....DO get caught up in the reputaion of the breeder, the style and capabilites of the parents, and the level of training you are willing to take your dog to.

Most versitile dogs are average to good at all things. There are some rockstars for sure, but dont expect perfection out of them. Theres no versitile dog in the world that can compete with the best labs in retrieving, just as theres no versitile dog who can compete at Ames Plantation. If youre goal is just to hunt, you will be just fine and your dog will probably retrieve everything you shoot if trained properly.
 

2ski

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Pick the dog breed you find the best looking and then do some research to find a good breeder who breeds for high retrieving drive. You will probably end up with something you love. Pretty much any well bred dog will do what you ask it to do with the propper training. DONT get caught up in the hype of a particular breed that claims to be the BEST versitile hunting breed.....DO get caught up in the reputaion of the breeder, the style and capabilites of the parents, and the level of training you are willing to take your dog to.

Most versitile dogs are average to good at all things. There are some rockstars for sure, but dont expect perfection out of them. Theres no versitile dog in the world that can compete with the best labs in retrieving, just as theres no versitile dog who can compete at Ames Plantation. If youre goal is just to hunt, you will be just fine and your dog will probably retrieve everything you shoot if trained properly.
What's your definition of retrieving? I mean i don't know how you can say they can't compete. You think none of them retrieve? I'm confused by your statement.
 

2ski

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Pick the dog breed you find the best looking and then do some research to find a good breeder who breeds for high retrieving drive. You will probably end up with something you love. Pretty much any well bred dog will do what you ask it to do with the propper training. DONT get caught up in the hype of a particular breed that claims to be the BEST versitile hunting breed.....DO get caught up in the reputaion of the breeder, the style and capabilites of the parents, and the level of training you are willing to take your dog to.

Most versitile dogs are average to good at all things. There are some rockstars for sure, but dont expect perfection out of them. Theres no versitile dog in the world that can compete with the best labs in retrieving, just as theres no versitile dog who can compete at Ames Plantation. If youre goal is just to hunt, you will be just fine and your dog will probably retrieve everything you shoot if trained properly.
Also, a gsp is considered a versatile breed and I would argue they do compete at field trials.
 

KurtR

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What's your definition of retrieving? I mean i don't know how you can say they can't compete. You think none of them retrieve? I'm confused by your statement.
Well like one of the series of the NARC this year was a water quad with shortest bird at 150 ish and then long was pushing 400 with long water entries and on and off points and bird placement that made a lot of dogs work. I have seen some nice versatile dogs run finished test and pass but they still struggled more running the blinds and triple marks and are not as stylish. I don’t know of one that has ever passed the Grand. They beat the hell out of labs in the big upland fields and pointing.
 

JGood

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Also, a gsp is considered a versatile breed and I would argue they do compete at field trials.
What's your definition of retrieving? I mean i don't know how you can say they can't compete. You think none of them retrieve? I'm confused by your statement.

On the Retrieving question, im saying that no GSP is going beat out the TOP labs in retrieving competition or hunting. Many GSPs make for great retrievers for the average hunter, but place them in an AKC retriever trial and they will get smoked.

On the "compete at field trials" question (assuming you're refering to my comment about ames plantation), I am saying they are not competitive with Pointers and Setters in pointing dog Field Trials on a national level, specifically American Field. They are alowed to compete, many do, and many are successful in regional field trials, but none will likely ever qualify to run at the National. There are other organizations like NSTRA, NAVHDA, and a dozen or so smaller organizations that run "field trials" but those aren't really what I'm refering to. Not that there aren't incredible dogs that compete in those trials, but the competition is not the same as an American Field All Age Open Stake.
 
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