Vote - MOA or MIL

[Justin Crossley]

Let me know what you prefer.

 

[Lawnboi]

I had to get rid of my minute scopes when I started calling wind off mph gun number.

Guys that are not doing the above are missing out.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

MIL.

Quicker, with the ability to range and correct for follow up shots, provided you have spotted your initial impact.


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[deadwolf]

Mil


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[Tumbleweed]

I don't complete, just hunting and ELR targets. MOA is a slightly finer graduation per click, I do appreciate that. In my mind, MOA is just easier to use although I'm sure I could learn and appreciate MILS if I needed to


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[Ucsdryder]

I had moa and went to mil. I wish I would have stayed moa. My brain thinks in 1” per 100. Or 1.07 or whatever it is. The .35” per click confuses me.

 

[eddielasvegas]

I asked myself this question when I got back into hunting in 2019 and I seem to recall reading that for LR (~600+ yds.) shooting MILs is better. I did not confirm what I read, but given I was somewhat familiar with MOA and that 1 MOA is 1.047" at 100 yds (easy for my 2 brains cells to cipher), and I had no plans to shoot LR, I went with MOA.



Eddie

 

[rifletuner]

I have been using MOA since the 1990s and was very familiar with them. I avoided MIL for a while when they first started becoming popular. But since using MIL scopes in PRS matches, I find that I like FFP/MIL better.

For a while I used both, but I screwed up by dialing a MIL adjustment onto an MOA scope. Luckily only at the range, but it was an experience I didnt like, so made the decision to commit 100% to MIL so there is no confusion in future. I am selling off all my MOA scopes and replacing them with MIL.

 

[hereinaz]

MIL

Wind with mph method
Easier to count and dial
The difference between.1 mil and .25 moa is not enough to even show for most shooters

 

[KnightOwl]

Let me know what you prefer.

hard core MOA fan forever but oddly... I eneded up being better with MIL/MIL go figure..

 

[XLR]

Mil is far superior to MOA when it comes to making wind call! Nobody is going to shoot the difference between 1/4 moa and .1 mil, especially at distance! For wind calls, if you go into your ballistics calculator you can find your wind MPH at around 600 yds. Change the numbers and see where your rifle lines up to the yardage. For example, a 6 mph gun in a 6mph wind will have a .3 at 300, .4 at 400, .5 at 500, etc. Once you have this calculated, it is really easy to do these numbers on the fly and they normally line up to around the 800-yard mark. This is super beneficial because when you are strained on time you can estimate the wind at 9 mph. You are making a 500-yard shot so you can do 5x1.5 (due to a 6mph gun) and get a wind hold of .7-.8 mils. That can all be done in your head in a few seconds! There is a similar formula for MOA but it is far more difficult to remember! I probably did not do the best job of explaining that but if anybody wants a better explanation let me know and I can send over a podcast and article that does a better job of explaining it!

 

[WeiserBucks]

Mil is far superior to MOA when it comes to making wind call! Nobody is going to shoot the difference between 1/4 moa and .1 mil, especially at distance! For wind calls, if you go into your ballistics calculator you can find your wind MPH at around 600 yds. Change the numbers and see where your rifle lines up to the yardage. For example, a 6 mph gun in a 6mph wind will have a .3 at 300, .4 at 400, .5 at 500, etc. Once you have this calculated, it is really easy to do these numbers on the fly and they normally line up to around the 800-yard mark. This is super beneficial because when you are strained on time you can estimate the wind at 9 mph. You are making a 500-yard shot so you can do 5x1.5 (due to a 6mph gun) and get a wind hold of .7-.8 mils. That can all be done in your head in a few seconds! There is a similar formula for MOA but it is far more difficult to remember! I probably did not do the best job of explaining that but if anybody wants a better explanation let me know and I can send over a podcast and article that does a better job of explaining it!

I'd appreciate a whole new thread on this subject, along with links to the reference material if you have time. I think some of us could really stand to gain something in this MPH conversation.

 

[bluumoon]

Formid has a really good quick and dirty explantion of wind holds and Mil. I linked it here

Compilation of Formidilosus posts​

 

[ID_Matt]

I had moa and went to mil. I wish I would have stayed moa. My brain thinks in 1” per 100. Or 1.07 or whatever it is. The .35” per click confuses me.

This used to bug me too... but once you start using a reticle like is is meant to be used. Why would you need to measure in inches instead of angular measurements?

 

[BRTreedogs]

I bit off hard on the Mph wind brackets. And switched like 4 rifles to mils.
Can't say I've honestly shot enough to get in the groove, but so far it doesn't seem to be intuitive for me. I've always thought of things in inches. Can picture what 10" look like on an animal. But have no idea off hard how many mils that would look like.
I also have one rifle I can't really get zeroed exactly where I want with the larger clicks.

 

[ID_Matt]

I bit off hard on the Mph wind brackets. And switched like 4 rifles to mils.
Can't say I've honestly shot enough to get in the groove, but so far it doesn't seem to be intuitive for me. I've always thought of things in inches. Can picture what 10" look like on an animal. But have no idea off hard how many mils that would look like.
I also have one rifle I can't really get zeroed exactly where I want with the larger clicks.

I would bet if you are looking through your reticle that has subtensions, you could more accurately guess the distance in mils closer than you could guess it in inches.

As far as not being able to get your zero within .18" or whatever the max it can be off is with 1/10th clicks, can't you just input the offset in to your ballistic calculator?

 

[CTXhunter]

I’m my part of the country, every serious competitor shoots mils. Its difficult to have people help you with spotting when they’re not speaking the same language. Here is an example of a dialogue at a local PRS match
Spotter: “Hold 3/10 left for wind!”
Shooter: “how many minutes is that?”
Spotter: “uhhhhh just hold a little left”

For me, mils seems more simple than MOA. I’ll see if I can dig it out later, but I remember a turning point for me was reading Ryan Cleckners book where he explains that you have to “think in mils”. If you think in inches and try to convert it in you’re head you’ll just give yourself a headache. Make a shot, measure the miss with your reticle, and make an adjustment. The 1/10 adjustments of mil are just easier for me to do that with.

If you’re using something like a leupold VX series with a duplex reticle and a CDS, I don’t see how mils or MOA would matter much as you’re just making an adjustment and firing. I’ll also use that to say that they’re both simply an angular measurement, so one can’t really be better, but IMO, once you learn to “speak mil” it’s a really nice system.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I’m my part of the country, every serious competitor shoots mils. Its difficult to have people help you with spotting when they’re not speaking the same language. Here is an example of a dialogue at a local PRS match
Spotter: “Hold 3/10 left for wind!”
Shooter: “how many minutes is that?”
Spotter: “uhhhhh just hold a little left”

The answer is 1 MOA..... but you're right. It's very valuable to speak in the same terms as everyone around you.

 

[CTXhunter]

The answer is 1 MOA..... but you're right. It's very valuable to speak in the same terms as everyone around you.

Haha that may have been a bad example lol. But yeah that was kinda what I was getting at. If you have a great spotter/mentor that has a preference, it might be a good idea to match up with them.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I've always thought of things in inches. Can picture what 10" look like on an animal. But have no idea off hard how many mils that would look like.

I feel like a lot of hunters are in the same boat. I know my brain works like this.

I would bet if you are looking through your reticle that has subtensions, you could more accurately guess the distance in mils closer than you could guess it in inches.

You're correct except for one thing. Most binoculars and spotting scopes don't have a reticle in them.

I'm not saying one is better than the other but I do think there are pros and cons to each. It's interesting that most comments in this thread and others seem to favor MIL but more people seem to shoot MOA. I wonder if it's because MOA makes more sense to people when they first start out, or maybe just marketing?